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Fools mistakenly shooting innocents will backlash on us

HayesGreener said:
Violent criminals will be violent criminals no matter what the laws are. If raised feral in thug culture, the behavior is pretty well baked in.
The solution in controlling violent miscreants is to put them behind bars or in the ground.

My point has been that otherwise law abiding John Q needs to understand the law, and ramifications of using a firearm, especially if he is going to carry one around in public. Having been a trainer for many years, I have disabused many of notions about the law that could have landed them in jail. The lady who thought she could display her gun to an unsavory looking character in the WalMart parking lot, to "scare him". The guy who thought he could shoot someone siphoning gas in his driveway. The person who thought he could shoot the guy stealing the bicycle or lawn mower form his front yard. Or it's OK to shoot a trespasser if there are signs posted. The list goes on. I have heard these misconceptions often enough in my classes to believe it is a thing. I
know I am a broken record, but you have to know the law where you are if you are going to use a firearm.
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All those examples you cited make me shake my head. I think anyone who ever thought it was ok to shoot a non threat trespasser or a guy stealing gas has to be dense. Too dense to have that crap trained out of them.

I know you and several of my friends made/make a decent side hustle relentlessly ingraining these things in people’s heads at training classes, but to my way of thinking it is all common sense. It really requires way less “training” on the law aspect. Simply put, if you or another innocent person is not under threat of death or great bodily injury you are not justified in shooting anyone. Simple.

It’s like these people watch Netflix shows and somehow think it’s real.

I’d also argue that people who ever thought it was ok to shoot someone who is stealing gas out of your car is not only too stupid to have or carry a gun, they’re also too stupid to survive without the aid of society/others. Given the over-population problem and all the problems that come along with that, I think the solution is to quit helping them. If you can’t figure out how to survive successfully then I guess you’re just gonna die.
 
TidalWave said:
All of the above are good points, even if some stray a bit off on to side topics (media coverage, etc)…

I like to ‘distill’ things down to their basics. HayesG’s basic message - assuming I’m understanding it correctly - is that experienced gun owners & ‘carriers’ can help protect our rights by pointing newbies towards [legitimate] training. I fully concur…
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My side comments:
- I took the CCW class twice. The first one didn’t seem quite right (I can’t recall specifics off the top of my head) and the second class was an older guy (former schoolteacher!) who had a methodical style and also seemed to know how to ‘read’ his student group. But he too had his own angle & emphasis on certain things, just like the first.
I passed on several instructors’ classes as i saw the tatoos, tactical logos on ballcaps & T-shirts, and looked around their shops. Most of these were youngish guys and ex-military or claiming to be. I got the impression that they could have just as easily been in the hoodlum side of the aisle given even a minor change somewhere in their past. Then again, I’m old, and look at things with a jaundiced eye now 😉.

- I have the oddball feeling that too much is made of the “feared for my life” angle, although I can’t say why I’ve got that notion. Maybe it used to be THE criteria that had to be met?? Point is, there are other imperative conditions and I wonder if those trip people up in their decision making.

- A lot of the cases in the news are anomalies (for lack of a better term). The recent one about a basketball rolling into that elderly guys yard come to mind. I haven’t read up on it, but surely it’s a one-off situation (did it even involve CC ??) but they ALL get lumped together in the lib mind and in the media.
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I’ve said it before - there’s an unintended consequence to be considered with all the new (fad?) gun owners coming on board. More gun carrying will inevitably lead to more, ah, ‘messy situations’.

I’m sorry for the long post. Just rambling on a Sunday morning.
But HayesGs concern is surely valid.
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have to add , nothing says to far to one side than going into a firearm store and all the clerks are dressed in camo with chest plate jackets that are empty .
when they adjusted the law here to keep LTC and then the constitutional carry. we had people running around UN informed of the law and subsequently they get into trouble
LTC in texas have far superior protections and places they can carry than the unlicensed in a brief nutshell

we have 3 firearm stores within 20 miles
all 3 are prior military owned
2 are what i term as nonchalant and dress in normal street attire, and one dresses like he is still on front line of the sand box, and brags about he is the supreme army dude etc etc etc.
he has done everything in the world and every story starts with no shiit..so as a military guy i know right away he is full of manure
. sadly i had to use his store to get a particular stag arms 308, as i was in a pinch for time last season.

the other 2 guys get the rest of my business. no trump signs, no giant 2nd amend signs etc. no nra blasted into your face, no BS. just two honest dudes providing a service . with great training on your purchase before you leave.

the recent nuts exploiting SYG or flat loosing their minds over a basketball is imo a direct case of hey they see it everyday on the news, people shooting up the streets and no accountability.
before long ..people on the fence get fed up and snap and begin to see everyone and everything as a threat when it is not.
this is what needs to be repaired. how do we do it? thats the question. we need leaders to be leaders and prosecutors to actually follow the laws they are sworn to uphold. police need to police, not shackeld by weak leaders, but not abuse the citizens either. you can have law and order without trampling rights or trampling people
 
Here’s a new one for you… PA homeowner shoots burglary suspects in his home. Sends 2 to hospital. One shot in back 7 times… and lives. Guess according to some he can sue for being shot in the back

www.foxnews.com

Home invaders shot, sent running for their lives when armed resident opens fire

An armed homeowner in Bethlehem Township, Pennsylvania, turned the tables on four home invasion suspects, opening fire on them and sending two to the hospital.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
KillerFord1977 said:
Here’s a new one for you… PA homeowner shoots burglary suspects in his home. Sends 2 to hospital. One shot in back 7 times… and lives. Guess according to some he can sue for being shot in the back

www.foxnews.com

Home invaders shot, sent running for their lives when armed resident opens fire

An armed homeowner in Bethlehem Township, Pennsylvania, turned the tables on four home invasion suspects, opening fire on them and sending two to the hospital.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
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Sounds like a larger caliber and more range time are in order.
 
Onewolf426 said:
Sounds like a larger caliber and more range time are in order.
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I’m sure his one time CCW class told him he was GTG!

In all seriousness around 85% of folks **** with service since pistol rounds survive these days. Factor I. Real thugs don’t read about gel tests so your new latest and greatest super bonded JHP might not impress them outside an upper thoracic hit.

Seen dozens of Federal inmates shot with everything from 9mm to 308 walking around some with only a slight limp!
 
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