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Happened Here Yesterday

I could believe all these except the shoot more accurately part. No way hood rats are taking gun courses and no way they are paying range fees. The practice they get is either committing crimes/shootings or walking around the city shooting stray dogs and other crap. And with ammo prices the last 2 years I don't think they're doing much shooting for fun or practice. Certainly not as much as most of us do.

That part of it may apply to cop killers that aren't regular street thug, hood rat punks.

LE training is my realm so here’s the real stats. Nationally Police have a 20% or less hit %. I have similar examples from FLETC but to give credit Here’s some stats from Tom Givens at Range Master and his resources on two major meteo areas.

NYPD qualified twice per year and have a hit % of between 10-20%. LAPD required to shoot monthly and have a 55% hit rate while the LAPD Meto aka Gunfighter have an 85% rate.


Here is the problems. A state mandated qualification with B27’a and gratis time limits so not prepare LEOs like they think they do.

First B27 8 ring is huge. The 8 ring is usually given as full value for Indiana as example if no ILEA targets are available many agency’s can use B 27’s and everything 8 ring and In are full value everything else on target is half. So while someone is “Awesome” at say 100% all the outer 8 rings is not an effective fight stopper on a real bad guy.

also factor in the 10 and X ring on a B27 is way low and also not an effective place to put rounds if you want to stop a fight. Only upper thoracic area of brain stem hits stop bad guys. That’s why LEOs shoot 12 times and fail to immediately stop threats as a whole.

The departments that have 85% hit rates are like Bakersfield and Kern County California that do the backersfield every few weeks. That 10 round course requires speed assessment and above all else accuracy.

Departments that would use some Range Master or Justin Dyal Assessment drills on B8 repair center and require or get shooters up to a 80-90% would correct those dismal hit percentages.

Until agencies out more emphasis back into actual marksmanship instead of inclusion training here we are!

Civilians are sort of similarly with LE. That is there is an 10% 80% 10% breakdown.

Top 10% are your good shooters that practice and go to training on their own time and some. Then the middle 80% meet minimum standards most by just a few points OR are the ones that have to re shoot every year twice and then quip “good enough til next year”

Then the bottom 10% are why the Unions and admin dumb it down Even the Federal Air Marshals made their course easier as did a ton of other agencies. Up until around 1998 Indiana required a 50 yard stage and they cut it out.

That’s the short answer overall LE (and most civilians) are not quite as “Awesome” John Wick like as they think they are.
 
LE training is my realm so here’s the real stats. Nationally Police have a 20% or less hit %. I have similar examples from FLETC but to give credit Here’s some stats from Tom Givens at Range Master and his resources on two major meteo areas.

NYPD qualified twice per year and have a hit % of between 10-20%. LAPD required to shoot monthly and have a 55% hit rate while the LAPD Meto aka Gunfighter have an 85% rate.


Here is the problems. A state mandated qualification with B27’a and gratis time limits so not prepare LEOs like they think they do.

First B27 8 ring is huge. The 8 ring is usually given as full value for Indiana as example if no ILEA targets are available many agency’s can use B 27’s and everything 8 ring and In are full value everything else on target is half. So while someone is “Awesome” at say 100% all the outer 8 rings is not an effective fight stopper on a real bad guy.

also factor in the 10 and X ring on a B27 is way low and also not an effective place to put rounds if you want to stop a fight. Only upper thoracic area of brain stem hits stop bad guys. That’s why LEOs shoot 12 times and fail to immediately stop threats as a whole.

The departments that have 85% hit rates are like Bakersfield and Kern County California that do the backersfield every few weeks. That 10 round course requires speed assessment and above all else accuracy.

Departments that would use some Range Master or Justin Dyal Assessment drills on B8 repair center and require or get shooters up to a 80-90% would correct those dismal hit percentages.

Until agencies out more emphasis back into actual marksmanship instead of inclusion training here we are!

Civilians are sort of similarly with LE. That is there is an 10% 80% 10% breakdown.

Top 10% are your good shooters that practice and go to training on their own time and some. Then the middle 80% meet minimum standards most by just a few points OR are the ones that have to re shoot every year twice and then quip “good enough til next year”

Then the bottom 10% are why the Unions and admin dumb it down Even the Federal Air Marshals made their course easier as did a ton of other agencies. Up until around 1998 Indiana required a 50 yard stage and they cut it out.

That’s the short answer overall LE (and most civilians) are not quite as “Awesome” John Wick like as they think they are.
Oh I don't disagree. I have shot with plenty of cops and a lot of them shoot once a year for quals.

I was more or less referring to people like those who inhabit this forum and the ever increasing percentage of civilian gun owners who have embraced training.


For the record, the majority of guys I train with are cops or military. And those cats can shoot. They regularly make me look stupid and I can shoot.
 
Oh I don't disagree. I have shot with plenty of cops and a lot of them shoot once a year for quals.

I was more or less referring to people like those who inhabit this forum and the ever increasing percentage of civilian gun owners who have embraced training.


For the record, the majority of guys I train with are cops or military. And those cats can shoot. They regularly make me look stupid and I can shoot.

I’m not sure what it is but I do know real thugs are hard to kill. I’m sure some luck is involved

I have seen a ton of massive blunt force trama on inmates inside US Penitentiaries with BOP injuries where half the skull is caved in and they lived, others where a pipe smashed sinus cavities and face in with an eye hanging attached with about 6” of optical cord and others with abdominal eviscerations with much more grossness I’ll leave out and they live.

We also shot one in the pelvis with an M4 and still had to fight him to get cuffs on

Real bad guys don’t go down like the movies
 
Had lightning strike a tree I was standing by, say 5 or 6 yards away. It was like the finger of God just blew me over and maybe out not sure Laid there a while to try to get my senses back got up and brushed off bark from the tree and put out the fire. Three days later I could hear again.

Probably one of the reasons I wear hearing aides.
God's aim was a little off that day? 😁
 
When in military I used to shoot 2-3 times a week. Now I try to go once a week to stay on top of things. As i get older i'm sure i'm not as good as i used to be but practice keeps me in the game.
I have found that if I go two weeks without practice my skills begin to erode. Prior to COVID I was shooting pisol and shotgun every week. COVID and the ammo shortage and now ammo prices have really dragged my practice sessions down and my skills show it.
 
Yes ammo shortages and high prices are starting to take a toll. I can still remember$4.99 a box for 9mm. Those were the days!
 
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