Hellcat trigger debacle

[deadduck357]

Sure. Meanwhile, SA changed the design from sharp angle to a lesser one - see my first picture.
Also APEX seems to followed the same idea. This is their new kit, note that the sharp corner on the safety blade is gone:

Are you figgin kidding me?? I just purchased this Apex trigger this week, was about to install it and may not now. The back of the safety blade on the one I just got isn't shaped like the one you pictured. The one I got is a sharp angle not semi-rounded like that ^ one. Crap!

I did call SA last week about this new gen 2 Hellcat trigger and was told there was no change in the safety blade design to eliminate the hanging up issues. She said the previous trigger didn't have that issue. I asked then what was the change for, she said it was for ergonomics. Deny deny deny I guess.

 

[SoNic]

The metallic blade might not bind the same way, because is more rigid and can "slip" easier. Don't know tough I don't have one, don't need it with the new trigger.
However Apex seem to have changed it too, that pic is from midwestgunworks site... Maybe you can get them to send you a replacement?

 

[SkyMarshall]

I don't have a Hellcat but here's what I found after trying several pistols. None of my Shields ( stock triggers) failed to engage no matter what I did to them. My VP9 will not fire if you pull sideaways without engaging the blade safety. However, if you pull the trigger without touching the blade safety first and then wiggle your finger over to the blade, it will engage. The Walther Q5 will not engage if the blade is not depressed before you pull the trigger and pulling sideways without engaging the blade will cause it not to engage. The Mod 2 .45 reacted the same way as the VP9 and there was virtually no way to pull sideways without engaging the blade safety. I had to try several times to get it to not engage.

Having never handled a Hellcat I can't say if it is different than any of the pistols I just tried. For the record, the Walther Q is the only one I never carry.

Not a fair comparison. S&W puts a hinged trigger on the Shield that is extremely forgiving of finger placement to disengage the safety.
This is not true for many bladed triggers.
The bladed triggers pioneered by Glock and used on the Hellcat are less forgiving of finger placement. That is common knowledge. You MUST place your finger over the safety blade in the center of the trigger and depress it BEFORE pulling the trigger body aft to make the gun fire. Period. This, by design, makes it SLIGHTLY less prone to a negligent discharge than a hinged trigger or a rigid trigger.
Lots of pros carry 1911’s. A sloppy grip in a panic situation when presenting a 1911 will not depress the grip safety correctly resulting in a gun that will not fire. “Limp wristing” any auto pistol with a loose grip risks having it not cycle properly. Are these “design flaws” too? Hardly.
It is incumbent on all of us to know the manipulation limitations of the weapons we carry and spend the hours required in holster drills with PROPER technique to build correct muscle memory. And to repeat that training regularly & often for as long as we intend carry.
If you are not 100% confident that in your hands the Hellcat trigger will never be mishandled by you in a panic situation, either train a lot more from the holster or sell it now and buy a Sig, a Shield, or a revolver.
Center safety triggers have manipulation limitations just like the grip safeties on 1911’s do. We accepted those limits when we bought any gun with a center safety trigger or a grip safety. Know the limitations of any weapon you carry and train to minimize those limits in your hands and to hit only what you aim at. Or don’t carry.

 

[BCAD]

Not a fair comparison. S&W puts a hinged trigger on the Shield that is extremely forgiving of finger placement to disengage the safety.
This is not true for many bladed triggers.
The bladed triggers pioneered by Glock and used on the Hellcat are less forgiving of finger placement. That is common knowledge. You MUST place your finger over the safety blade in the center of the trigger and depress it BEFORE pulling the trigger body aft to make the gun fire. Period. This, by design, makes it SLIGHTLY less prone to a negligent discharge than a hinged trigger or a rigid trigger.
Lots of pros carry 1911’s. A sloppy grip in a panic situation when presenting a 1911 will not depress the grip safety correctly resulting in a gun that will not fire. “Limp wristing” any auto pistol with a loose grip risks having it not cycle properly. Are these “design flaws” too? Hardly.
It is incumbent on all of us to know the manipulation limitations of the weapons we carry and spend the hours required in holster drills with PROPER technique to build correct muscle memory. And to repeat that training regularly & often for as long as we intend carry.
If you are not 100% confident that in your hands the Hellcat trigger will never be mishandled by you in a panic situation, either train a lot more from the holster or sell it now and buy a Sig, a Shield, or a revolver.
Center safety triggers have manipulation limitations just like the grip safeties on 1911’s do. We accepted those limits when we bought any gun with a center safety trigger or a grip safety. Know the limitations of any weapon you carry and train to minimize those limits in your hands and to hit only what you aim at. Or don’t carry.

I had never heard of the Glocks having the same issue considering
how long they’ve been out. I never had the issue with my full size xd. It was only with the smaller Hellcat, different grip due to small size that I encountered it.Strange that as ubiquitous as Glocks are, the internet hasn’t been lit up with comments

 

[SoNic]

If you are not 100% confident that in your hands the Hellcat trigger will never be mishandled by you in a panic situation

That's the issue. You can't be EVER sure of that, unless you train having have some other dude shooting live ammo at you.
I don't care what you think about range training, when adrenaline is pumping you cannot be 100% sure about that "muscle memory".

This, by design, makes it SLIGHTLY less prone to a negligent discharge than a hinged trigger or a rigid trigger.

That blade is only to protect against drops. It will not protect against any negligent insertions of objects in the trigger guard. If an object is stick in there, there is no way it will drag only the trigger and not the blade too.

Strange that as ubiquitous as Glocks are, the internet hasn’t been lit up with comments

Nope, it's full of people "upgrading" their Glock triggers. Some of those upgraded triggers, from what I saw, have also a less sharp angle (and rounded) for that drop safety.
See here:

In my personal opinion, the new Hellcat trigger design is better. Probably in SA opinion, since they redesigned it.

 

[jumpinjoe]

In my case, I had not seen the videos until I started researching the issue. The very first time out of the box when I shot my new Hellcat it “stuck” on me several times. I was perplexed and curious as to just what was going on. That’s how I found the videos online, as I tried to get answers.

BCAD, just a question out of curiosity ...... Was the Hellcat your first semi-auto pistol? Is your experience like many who recently have sorta' evolved from revolvers to the semi-autos? Thanks.

Edit: Ooops, didn't see your post #40 till after I posted this. I'd still be interested in amount of experience with the semi-autos prior to the Hellcat. Thanks again.

 

[BCAD]

BCAD, just a question out of curiosity ...... Was the Hellcat your first semi-auto pistol? Is your experience like many who recently have sorta' evolved from revolvers to the semi-autos? Thanks.

Edit: Ooops, didn't see your post #40 till after I posted this. I'd still be interested in amount of experience with the semi-autos prior to the Hellcat. Thanks again.

I’ve had xd40 10+ years, but my regular carry has been a kahr p9, no bladed trigger and no grip safety to cause issues. Had it about same number of years. I liked the xd and hoped Hellcat was as good as advertised but I had the issues. As I’ve said before I fully accept that I must practice to achieve a perfect trigger pull. I also know that will help my accuracy. I just can’t get used to a self defense gun that has the potential to lock up and not fire. I had about accepted all that before SA came out with an improved trigger. Why, I can’t help but ask.

 

[OkiePewPew]

SkyMarshall, if it’s ok with you I’d like to copy and keep your explanation for distribution when this issue comes up. It the best balanced and thoughtful one I’ve seen so far.
No offense to the other posters here, this thread has been a great discussion with a few exceptions.
~OKPP

 

[OkiePewPew]

Folks there are A LOT of assumptions here about Springfield’s intentions with the Hellcat’s trigger, or even by firearms mfg’s in general.

Stop speaking FOR Springfield.

Springfield has been clear that this is a gen 2 trigger and they did NOT do so in order to fix any problem. SkyMarshall is exactly right; every gun model is unique, even inside model families, and they must be approached as such. Assumptions about a gun because it or it’s parts resemble another is exactly why stuff like ‘is it a slide stop or slide release’ gets going in perpetuity.

I’ll leave you with one example before I shut down this repetitious conversation. How many people have discussed the grip geometry in relation to how the trigger is pulled.