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Hellcat, understanding RDS options?

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Seedman76

Alpha
I’m trying to weigh my options for a RDS on a 9mm Hellcat. Currently I’ve narrowed it down to the Holosun 507K, Swampfox Liberty or Shield SMSC. I’ve done a lot of research but am still confused on my mounting options. My understanding is the Holosun and Swampfox follow the RMR platform and will require a baseplate and/or modification of the slide. The Shield SMSC mounts directly without any modification.

1.) Can someone confirm if I am correct in these assumptions?
2.) Any preference on green vs red dot?

Thank you in advance.
 
American Rifleman had a red dot article back in I think the August issue. Title is "Navigating The Optics-Ready Market". Search that title and the link comes up. It is a downloadable PDF article. The table shows the Hellcat has a Shield footprint and that is the footprint used by the Shield SMS/RMS (obviously) and Wasp.

You should read the article for the subtle differences in some of these red dots. The Holosun 507k is listed as having a unique footprint but a footnote says: "May be compatible with some Shield plates/cuts." But that does not mean it will fit.

I have an extra CT1500 and it has a Shield footprint. And a Sig 365XL that also has a Shield footprint. You would think the CT1500 would bolt on, but no it does not. The CT1500 has a slight protrusion on the back such it will not fit in the 'cut' on the Sig 365XL slide.

Dot color seems to be personal preference. See if you can take a look through a 'dot' with each color.
 
MrRooney said:
American Rifleman had a red dot article back in I think the August issue. Title is "Navigating The Optics-Ready Market". Search that title and the link comes up. It is a downloadable PDF article. The table shows the Hellcat has a Shield footprint and that is the footprint used by the Shield SMS/RMS (obviously) and Wasp.

You should read the article for the subtle differences in some of these red dots. The Holosun 507k is listed as having a unique footprint but a footnote says: "May be compatible with some Shield plates/cuts." But that does not mean it will fit.

I have an extra CT1500 and it has a Shield footprint. And a Sig 365XL that also has a Shield footprint. You would think the CT1500 would bolt on, but no it does not. The CT1500 has a slight protrusion on the back such it will not fit in the 'cut' on the Sig 365XL slide.

Dot color seems to be personal preference. See if you can take a look through a 'dot' with each color.
Click to expand...
@MrRooney , great information. Thanks for your reply. I read the entire article you referenced. It was a well written article and after reading it I guess I don’t need to feel bad asking my questions. Who knew it could get so complicated. Obviously I’m fine with the Shield SMSC on my Hellcat as they sell one that way from the factory but I’m leaning towards the Holosun or Swampfox. I’ve read numerous posts where guys have modified things to make the either fit, I’m just not sure I want to go there on my brand new gun. Another option might be to try the 507k and see if it will fit (based on the footnote in the article that it fits some Shield plates). I’ll keep researching and see where I land. Thanks again!
 
Seedman, there are several RDs that will fit the Hellcat by one means or another. You're already aware the Shield is a direct bolt on with no mods required. I think the Swampfox is also a direct bolt on, as are a couple others. But the mounting is only one of the questions you might want to consider.

There is only a few RDS's that will give you 100% or full co-witness with the BUIS on your Hellcat. That's an important consideration for some, not so much for others. I'd strongly suggest you looking at a couple both ways ..... those with 100% co-witness and those with less. Make up your mind if it's as important to you as to me and others before you buy and build. Personally I would not have a handgun that did not 100% co-witness. A long gun is a little different in that with the longer sight radius a small tilt of the head will often give enough co-witness to use the BUIS, not usually so with a hand gun.

There's also the size of the dot in MOA. Some prefer a smaller dot, some like a larger one. Think about whether your Hellcat is a primary EDC PD gun, or is it something you'll be doing some target shooting with. You'll find the dot size will make a real difference in those uses.

Another consideration to mounting is are you comfortable grinding on and modifying the mount system on your gun slide just to use a particular RDS? It doesn't take much, but remember once modified by grinding and/or shortening some of the mounting/locating posts on your slide, you may find at a later date you've eliminated some possible future mountings or should you decide to resell your Hellcat, some potential buyers may not be inclined to want a modified gun.

As to the better color, as previously mentioned that's largely a personal preference. There are a few occasions where the different colors work better for some than others. Again, try them and see for yourself which is better for you.

Good luck and enjoy your Hellcat.
 
jumpinjoe said:
Seedman, there are several RDs that will fit the Hellcat by one means or another. You're already aware the Shield is a direct bolt on with no mods required. I think the Swampfox is also a direct bolt on, as are a couple others. But the mounting is only one of the questions you might want to consider.

There is only a few RDS's that will give you 100% or full co-witness with the BUIS on your Hellcat. That's an important consideration for some, not so much for others. I'd strongly suggest you looking at a couple both ways ..... those with 100% co-witness and those with less. Make up your mind if it's as important to you as to me and others before you buy and build. Personally I would not have a handgun that did not 100% co-witness. A long gun is a little different in that with the longer sight radius a small tilt of the head will often give enough co-witness to use the BUIS, not usually so with a hand gun.

There's also the size of the dot in MOA. Some prefer a smaller dot, some like a larger one. Think about whether your Hellcat is a primary EDC PD gun, or is it something you'll be doing some target shooting with. You'll find the dot size will make a real difference in those uses.

Another consideration to mounting is are you comfortable grinding on and modifying the mount system on your gun slide just to use a particular RDS? It doesn't take much, but remember once modified by grinding and/or shortening some of the mounting/locating posts on your slide, you may find at a later date you've eliminated some possible future mountings or should you decide to resell your Hellcat, some potential buyers may not be inclined to want a modified gun.

As to the better color, as previously mentioned that's largely a personal preference. There are a few occasions where the different colors work better for some than others. Again, try them and see for yourself which is better for you.

Good luck and enjoy your Hellcat.
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@jumpinjoe, great info. Thanks for your reply. I would like 100% co-witness as I feel that’s critical as a backup option. At this point I’ve narrowed down my options enough and need to get to a couple gun stores to look at those options with a discerning eye so I can make an informed decision.
 
Opinions are like belly buttons - everybody has one. So here is my contribution:

I have two Hellcats - an OSP and and an RDP both with red dots and Surefire XSC lights.

The OSP has a Sig RomeoZero while the RDP has a Wasp. Both sights co-witness to the iron sights and they do not lose their zero when remounting. Both sights work well at 30 yards at a 3 inch target.

At a year old, the dot on the Wasp is slightly smaller but is crisper than the RomeoZero. The auto brightness works well. The Wasp still has the original battery and is sealed from gun cleaning solution intrusion. The glass lens cleans up well with no scratches evident.

The RomeoZero is two years old and requires that the batteries be replaced every 6 months. The brightness control is in a very inconvenient place thus requiring the unit be kept at a brighter level to insure that you see the dot at all light levels you may encounter during the day. The plastic lens is a little harder to clean. I did have one instance where the gun cleaning solution caused the battery to break contact with the battery mount but it did not intrude into the unit. A quick alcohol swab of the battery holder fixed the problem but it did require a remounting.

If you can, try to look at as many candidates in person as you can and take into consideration more than just the dot size/color. The care and feeding of the sight is also important.

In May I will be going the the NRA Convention in Houston to pick out the best Red Dot and suppressor for my MDRX. I plan on fondling as may offerings as I can to minimize the chance of making a costly mistake. Good luck on your search.
 
When I bought my Hellcat OSP, the only available red dot options were the Shield RMSc, Shield SMSc, and J Point. After considerable research, I went with the RMSc. Pricey at $400 but checked all the boxes for size, direct fit, and 100% co-witness. I purchased the screws for it from Springfield's store to ensure correct fit. I went with the polymer lens on the advice of a LEO friend as it is coated with a scratch resistant material. He also recommended the LensPen Law Enforcement Pro Kit to care for the lens which costs only $25 and comes in a nylon zipper pack which fits easily in my range bag or on my belt with the built in loop. So far, my lens is clean and scratch free. I also bought 2 neoprene rubber covers from Dream Plastics for $9.95 (now $15.95) to protect the red dot from damage when not carrying the pistol. I think it also helps lengthen battery life. The advertised battery life is 2 years and I am a month away from that mark with no discernible loss of brightness or clarity. There are many good red dot options to choose from now so shop around and pick the one that works best for you. Good luck on your search.

Edit to correct auto correct.
 
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I’ve been through a few on my Hellcat OSP. First was a Swampfox Sentinel (auto brightness) which worked but was quite the starburst with my astigmatis. Great price via Expert Voice discount but sold on eBay. Swapped to the Hex Wasp, which looks the best, but was only slightly better with my astigmatism. Sold the Hex on eBay as well and I’ve settled in on a green HOLOSUN 507k with a C&H adapter plate for it. The combined green circle dot is the best for my astigmatism thus far. I also really like that the battery can be replaced without removing the optic. Can’t really co-witness much but it’s easy enough to point shoot off of the front sight should the optic stop working.

I have the green HOLOSUN 507c Vulcan optic on my XDM Tactical, but this chevron doesn’t work as well as the circle dot for my astigmatism. For my eyes, the green circle dot pattern works the best for my eyes.
 
Check out the new Crimson Trace RAD Micro or RAD Micro Pro. The bolt directly on without the need for a plate. I got the Pro because I wanted the "Shake-to-Wake" feature. It still allows the use of the iron sights. I'm really liking mine.
 
deadduck357 said:
Check out the new Crimson Trace RAD Micro or RAD Micro Pro. The bolt directly on without the need for a plate. I got the Pro because I wanted the "Shake-to-Wake" feature. It still allows the use of the iron sights. I'm really liking mine.
Click to expand...
I have the standard Rad Micro, because I'm not a shake-to-wake fan--buy hey, that's why they offer it both ways. I liked this one because it fit perfectly, 100% co-witnesses, has a high quality aluminum housing and glass lens, and the green dot is 5 MOA, literally a sight for my poor old eyes.
 
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