Anyone else with an echelon notice the slide gets really hot, really fast. I took my new echelon out to the range and couldn't touch the slide after 60 rounds. I fired 60 rounds out of my glock at the same rate of fire as the echelon, while the echelon was cooling. I could grab the glock slide and hold it.
belladonna
Professional
I don't own an Echelon (yet), but that doesn't sound "normal" to me. Someone who knows more than I do on here will chime in soon. Welcome to the Forum from Minnesota.
HansGruber
Ronin
I doubt it’s THAT hot.
Try a rapid 50 rounds through a P7…THAT’S hot.
Try a rapid 50 rounds through a P7…THAT’S hot.
Echelon Driver
Alpha
The OP is correct, the Echelon does get hot faster than most other examples. 60 rounds is nothing in training. 10 bill drills, movement drills, etc.
If I think about it enough I’ll look for my laser heat gun and get a few numbers.
Gas piston guns like the P7 are different completely and yes, they get hot but their design is inherent to that.
I won’t bother with the glove comments.
If I think about it enough I’ll look for my laser heat gun and get a few numbers.
Gas piston guns like the P7 are different completely and yes, they get hot but their design is inherent to that.
I won’t bother with the glove comments.
rcurtner
Professional
Well said!!What's wrong with gloves? Sure, you aren't likely to have nice shooting gloves on while concealed carrying, but you are even less likely to put 50 rounds though it while concealed carrying.
deadduck357
Custom
I've got both also and neither pistols bothered me to the point I noticed.
Old_Me
SAINT
i dunno, i don't have an Echelon..
i shoot mostly 1911's, (in 45 ACP) and other brands of 9mms, and i can tell you they all get hot with rapid firing, whether my with-in spec reloads, or factory ammo.
i'd think it's normal, and yeah, i have 3 Glocks, they get hot as well.
the only suggestion would be, to get your slide ported?
Bassbob
Emissary
Yeah, it's an internet forum. Not only that but it's an internet forum in which every single thread drifts off topic.
That said, the question was is this normal. The logical follow ups are going to most likely be yes and offer some sort of recourse. Since you say your Echelons also get hot, a logical conclusion is that yes, it's normal.
Belt Fed
Ronin
No need in insulting everyone with the reading comprehension skills. when you post a question on a forum you will get all kinds of answers,
Far as him never asking for a solution, he didn't ask for you to put a heat gun on one either. see you are just like everyone else offering suggestions to help. nothing wrong with it either. people ask questions for help.
Old_Me
SAINT
well,
LA-DEE-FRICKIN' DA.........
many of us also said that our guns get hot...what's yer point..??
some offered advice....which is NORMAL TOO...
you said yours gets hot too.......
so it IS normal.....cahbish...???
i'm taking my toys, and gonna play by myself now..........
Annihilator
Emissary
Echelon Driver
Alpha
I decided to put some actual numbers behind the claim. I pointed out a fact, and stated I will gather some data.
If someone feels insulted by facts I cannot help them. If someone is interested in the research, fine. If not, that’s fine as well. I’m certainly not the one who’s trolling.
HansGruber
Ronin
Most likely the OP is, with a bravo sierra question.
On a tilt barrel design, the only way the slide is gonna heat up like that is if you are somehow venting gas inside; which means he isn’t smart enough to realize he’s split his barrel (how, we can only conjecture…but usually when you do that—and I’ve seen it happen—it’s a pretty violent event, and it’s quite obvious something went WRONG).
Additionally…the OP hadn’t been seen since posting the question. This…tends to be a behavior of those that, canonically, dwell under bridges.
That being said, what you have done is wander into a community of people that know each other, and decided to try and assert some kind of authoriTAY…and that dog, my friend, simply does not hunt.
Threads drift.
Suggestions other than what the OP wants will be given.
This is how it works on this whole interwebz thingy.
If you can’t stomach it…this might not be a place for you.
Or, you can sit back, go with the flow, get to know some folks…you might just like it.
Ball’s in your court.
Echelon Driver
Alpha
Some preliminary information from the test last weekend. Please note this information is posted as research to the original posters claim, and something that I believe I noted as well.
I had 29 shooters with different makes of pistol shoot the same drills with the same round count.
Glock was well represented with models 17, 19, 22, 45 and 47 as well as aftermarket variants. Smith and Wesson M&P had three, Sig had three, a pair of 320’s and a single P226. A single Canik, a Walther PPQ, and a B&T MK II rounded out the field.
The main group of 29 was broken into three smaller groups of 10, 10 and 9. The other two groups were shooting carbine on different stages, then rotated through my experiment.
The three groups were broken into two relays of 5 or 6 shooters and each relay shot together, all shooting their string of fire at the same time. I shot an Echelon in either the first or second relay of the three groups. So in effect the Echelon was compared to either 9 or 10 other guns from the groups. There was significant time between groups to allow the Echelon to cool before being compared to the others.
Upon completion of the string of fire I utilized a non contact infrared heat measuring gun that I sourced from the grilling section of my local Ace hardware store. It should be mentioned that I measured the “heat” just behind the front sight, in the middle of the top of the slide.
Also of note, I measured the other examples first, and the Echelon last to ensure I was not skewing the numbers by always measuring the suspected hotter pistol first each time. None of the pistols were inspected, cleaned, lubed, etc for this test. It was simply run the gun you brought and we took temperatures. I also know that infrared can be influenced by different reflective coatings. Be that as it may, the guns all gave similar numbers and what I was looking for was trends in the data. To still provide for some of the variables, we will look at the other guns in an average when comparing the heat trends.
The three strings of fire were completed and due to various constraints, everyone loaded three magazines of 15 rounds, except the 45 ACP who had a 13 round limit.
First was 1, 2, then 3 shots per draw stroke, for a total of 45 rounds.
Second 4, 6, 6 rounds per draw stroke, for a total of 45 rounds.
Third was all one draw stroke, fire 15, rounds, reload fire 15 rounds. Total of 30 rounds.
There is still some number crunching to be done but the preliminary observation is that the Echelon is hotter than most other examples.
For instance in the first groups of 10 shooters:
Drill 1 - 45 rounds, the Echelon was 108 degrees, and 9 degrees hotter than the average of the sample group.
Drill 2 - 45 Rounds, the Echelon was 108 degrees again, and 3 degrees hotter than the average of the sample group.
Drill 3 - 30 Rounds, the Echelon was 106 degrees, and 8 degrees hotter than the average of the sample group.
Again more number crunching should be done but I’ll note some observations. The Echelon typically was the hottest after two of the three drills in each of three groups. It was rivaled for highest temps overall by a Walter PPQ, a particular Glock 19, and the Sig 226.
The coolest guns were typically Glocks, in particular two Zev guns that had the open slide cuts. The majority of guns were 9mm, just one 40 S&W and one 45 ACP in the group.
If we look at just the Echelon by itself the numbers were:
108, 108, 106
115, 122, 111
117, 126, 117
The day was getting hotter over the 3.5 hours and all the pistols in the groups had similar higher starting numbers as the day heated up.
Now, the question of just how much hotter 3-9 degrees is becomes another topic. A quick look at antiscald.com states that a second degree burn will happen in:
113 degrees in 2 Hours
116.6 degrees in 20 Minutes
118.4 degrees in 15 Minutes
120 degrees in 8 Minutes
124 degrees in 2 Minutes
131 degrees in 17 Seconds
140 degrees in 3 Seconds
The lowest temperature after a string for the Echelon from any of the three groups was 108 degrees the highest was 127 degrees. Comparing that to the chart it appears it could be quite hot to the touch at 127 degrees.
I feel this was a fair comparison to 29 other handguns, all things considered. I feel the claim of “hotter” is indeed accurate. Feel free to use it, or discard the information as you wish.
I had 29 shooters with different makes of pistol shoot the same drills with the same round count.
Glock was well represented with models 17, 19, 22, 45 and 47 as well as aftermarket variants. Smith and Wesson M&P had three, Sig had three, a pair of 320’s and a single P226. A single Canik, a Walther PPQ, and a B&T MK II rounded out the field.
The main group of 29 was broken into three smaller groups of 10, 10 and 9. The other two groups were shooting carbine on different stages, then rotated through my experiment.
The three groups were broken into two relays of 5 or 6 shooters and each relay shot together, all shooting their string of fire at the same time. I shot an Echelon in either the first or second relay of the three groups. So in effect the Echelon was compared to either 9 or 10 other guns from the groups. There was significant time between groups to allow the Echelon to cool before being compared to the others.
Upon completion of the string of fire I utilized a non contact infrared heat measuring gun that I sourced from the grilling section of my local Ace hardware store. It should be mentioned that I measured the “heat” just behind the front sight, in the middle of the top of the slide.
Also of note, I measured the other examples first, and the Echelon last to ensure I was not skewing the numbers by always measuring the suspected hotter pistol first each time. None of the pistols were inspected, cleaned, lubed, etc for this test. It was simply run the gun you brought and we took temperatures. I also know that infrared can be influenced by different reflective coatings. Be that as it may, the guns all gave similar numbers and what I was looking for was trends in the data. To still provide for some of the variables, we will look at the other guns in an average when comparing the heat trends.
The three strings of fire were completed and due to various constraints, everyone loaded three magazines of 15 rounds, except the 45 ACP who had a 13 round limit.
First was 1, 2, then 3 shots per draw stroke, for a total of 45 rounds.
Second 4, 6, 6 rounds per draw stroke, for a total of 45 rounds.
Third was all one draw stroke, fire 15, rounds, reload fire 15 rounds. Total of 30 rounds.
There is still some number crunching to be done but the preliminary observation is that the Echelon is hotter than most other examples.
For instance in the first groups of 10 shooters:
Drill 1 - 45 rounds, the Echelon was 108 degrees, and 9 degrees hotter than the average of the sample group.
Drill 2 - 45 Rounds, the Echelon was 108 degrees again, and 3 degrees hotter than the average of the sample group.
Drill 3 - 30 Rounds, the Echelon was 106 degrees, and 8 degrees hotter than the average of the sample group.
Again more number crunching should be done but I’ll note some observations. The Echelon typically was the hottest after two of the three drills in each of three groups. It was rivaled for highest temps overall by a Walter PPQ, a particular Glock 19, and the Sig 226.
The coolest guns were typically Glocks, in particular two Zev guns that had the open slide cuts. The majority of guns were 9mm, just one 40 S&W and one 45 ACP in the group.
If we look at just the Echelon by itself the numbers were:
108, 108, 106
115, 122, 111
117, 126, 117
The day was getting hotter over the 3.5 hours and all the pistols in the groups had similar higher starting numbers as the day heated up.
Now, the question of just how much hotter 3-9 degrees is becomes another topic. A quick look at antiscald.com states that a second degree burn will happen in:
113 degrees in 2 Hours
116.6 degrees in 20 Minutes
118.4 degrees in 15 Minutes
120 degrees in 8 Minutes
124 degrees in 2 Minutes
131 degrees in 17 Seconds
140 degrees in 3 Seconds
The lowest temperature after a string for the Echelon from any of the three groups was 108 degrees the highest was 127 degrees. Comparing that to the chart it appears it could be quite hot to the touch at 127 degrees.
I feel this was a fair comparison to 29 other handguns, all things considered. I feel the claim of “hotter” is indeed accurate. Feel free to use it, or discard the information as you wish.
Annihilator
Emissary
Ok, lots of information there, but in all reality, what’s the issue, guns get hot, it’s not anything to worry or be concerned about, in my over 40 years into all types of firearms, I have never heard anyone complain about a gun getting hot, it’s just the way it is, not a design flaw or something that needs to go back for warranty, it’s a nothing burger…..not trying to be a smart butt, I just don’t get why someone would worry about a trivial thing, let the gun cool down if your concerned about it.