testtest

Hot Echelon Slide

Echelon Driver said:
Some preliminary information from the test last weekend. Please note this information is posted as research to the original posters claim, and something that I believe I noted as well.



I had 29 shooters with different makes of pistol shoot the same drills with the same round count.
Glock was well represented with models 17, 19, 22, 45 and 47 as well as aftermarket variants. Smith and Wesson M&P had three, Sig had three, a pair of 320’s and a single P226. A single Canik, a Walther PPQ, and a B&T MK II rounded out the field.

The main group of 29 was broken into three smaller groups of 10, 10 and 9. The other two groups were shooting carbine on different stages, then rotated through my experiment.

The three groups were broken into two relays of 5 or 6 shooters and each relay shot together, all shooting their string of fire at the same time. I shot an Echelon in either the first or second relay of the three groups. So in effect the Echelon was compared to either 9 or 10 other guns from the groups. There was significant time between groups to allow the Echelon to cool before being compared to the others.

Upon completion of the string of fire I utilized a non contact infrared heat measuring gun that I sourced from the grilling section of my local Ace hardware store. It should be mentioned that I measured the “heat” just behind the front sight, in the middle of the top of the slide.

Also of note, I measured the other examples first, and the Echelon last to ensure I was not skewing the numbers by always measuring the suspected hotter pistol first each time. None of the pistols were inspected, cleaned, lubed, etc for this test. It was simply run the gun you brought and we took temperatures. I also know that infrared can be influenced by different reflective coatings. Be that as it may, the guns all gave similar numbers and what I was looking for was trends in the data. To still provide for some of the variables, we will look at the other guns in an average when comparing the heat trends.

The three strings of fire were completed and due to various constraints, everyone loaded three magazines of 15 rounds, except the 45 ACP who had a 13 round limit.

First was 1, 2, then 3 shots per draw stroke, for a total of 45 rounds.

Second 4, 6, 6 rounds per draw stroke, for a total of 45 rounds.

Third was all one draw stroke, fire 15, rounds, reload fire 15 rounds. Total of 30 rounds.

There is still some number crunching to be done but the preliminary observation is that the Echelon is hotter than most other examples.
For instance in the first groups of 10 shooters:

Drill 1 - 45 rounds, the Echelon was 108 degrees, and 9 degrees hotter than the average of the sample group.

Drill 2 - 45 Rounds, the Echelon was 108 degrees again, and 3 degrees hotter than the average of the sample group.

Drill 3 - 30 Rounds, the Echelon was 106 degrees, and 8 degrees hotter than the average of the sample group.

Again more number crunching should be done but I’ll note some observations. The Echelon typically was the hottest after two of the three drills in each of three groups. It was rivaled for highest temps overall by a Walter PPQ, a particular Glock 19, and the Sig 226.
The coolest guns were typically Glocks, in particular two Zev guns that had the open slide cuts. The majority of guns were 9mm, just one 40 S&W and one 45 ACP in the group.


If we look at just the Echelon by itself the numbers were:
108, 108, 106
115, 122, 111
117, 126, 117
The day was getting hotter over the 3.5 hours and all the pistols in the groups had similar higher starting numbers as the day heated up.


Now, the question of just how much hotter 3-9 degrees is becomes another topic. A quick look at antiscald.com states that a second degree burn will happen in:
113 degrees in 2 Hours
116.6 degrees in 20 Minutes
118.4 degrees in 15 Minutes
120 degrees in 8 Minutes
124 degrees in 2 Minutes
131 degrees in 17 Seconds
140 degrees in 3 Seconds

The lowest temperature after a string for the Echelon from any of the three groups was 108 degrees the highest was 127 degrees. Comparing that to the chart it appears it could be quite hot to the touch at 127 degrees.

I feel this was a fair comparison to 29 other handguns, all things considered. I feel the claim of “hotter” is indeed accurate. Feel free to use it, or discard the information as you wish.
Click to expand...

Can’t wait to watch the video, showing the testing
 
Annihilator said:
Ok, lots of information there, but in all reality, what’s the issue, guns get hot, it’s not anything to worry or be concerned about, in my over 40 years into all types of firearms, I have never heard anyone complain about a gun getting hot, it’s just the way it is, not a design flaw or something that needs to go back for warranty, it’s a nothing burger…..not trying to be a smart butt, I just don’t get why someone would worry about a trivial thing, let the gun cool down if your concerned about it.
Click to expand...
if anyone is concerned about a hot gun...shoot some ammo thru a revolver.......then tell me somethings "hot"....
 
Echelon Driver said:
Well, I now see that one of my posts was deleted. And no notifications from a moderator. Interesting.
Click to expand...

Well that is not true, you were also warned as well. Here is the history with the exact time and date.
Same warning other members also gave you.
IMG_1192.jpeg
 
Last edited:
While I appreciate you now telling me it was deleted, it is true.
I have never received the warning you posted nor can I find it anywhere. I’ll take that part of the discussing to a PM with you.

Regardless, I took a level of interest in the OP’s statement and added some research and information on the topic. That’s not trolling nor virtue signaling, it’s taking some sort of action to help prove or disprove a claim. My observations were provided and everyone can draw their own opinions.
 
Bassbob said:
So 60 rounds in 5-10 minutes. I mean I don't know just how hot the gun got, but I suspect any gun is gonna be pretty warm under those circumstances.
Click to expand...
I fired it again today. Only put 37 rounds through it. The front half of the slide was hot enough I couldn't hold it for more than a few seconds.
 
Echelon Driver said:
Some preliminary information from the test last weekend. Please note this information is posted as research to the original posters claim, and something that I believe I noted as well.



I had 29 shooters with different makes of pistol shoot the same drills with the same round count.
Glock was well represented with models 17, 19, 22, 45 and 47 as well as aftermarket variants. Smith and Wesson M&P had three, Sig had three, a pair of 320’s and a single P226. A single Canik, a Walther PPQ, and a B&T MK II rounded out the field.

The main group of 29 was broken into three smaller groups of 10, 10 and 9. The other two groups were shooting carbine on different stages, then rotated through my experiment.

The three groups were broken into two relays of 5 or 6 shooters and each relay shot together, all shooting their string of fire at the same time. I shot an Echelon in either the first or second relay of the three groups. So in effect the Echelon was compared to either 9 or 10 other guns from the groups. There was significant time between groups to allow the Echelon to cool before being compared to the others.

Upon completion of the string of fire I utilized a non contact infrared heat measuring gun that I sourced from the grilling section of my local Ace hardware store. It should be mentioned that I measured the “heat” just behind the front sight, in the middle of the top of the slide.

Also of note, I measured the other examples first, and the Echelon last to ensure I was not skewing the numbers by always measuring the suspected hotter pistol first each time. None of the pistols were inspected, cleaned, lubed, etc for this test. It was simply run the gun you brought and we took temperatures. I also know that infrared can be influenced by different reflective coatings. Be that as it may, the guns all gave similar numbers and what I was looking for was trends in the data. To still provide for some of the variables, we will look at the other guns in an average when comparing the heat trends.

The three strings of fire were completed and due to various constraints, everyone loaded three magazines of 15 rounds, except the 45 ACP who had a 13 round limit.

First was 1, 2, then 3 shots per draw stroke, for a total of 45 rounds.

Second 4, 6, 6 rounds per draw stroke, for a total of 45 rounds.

Third was all one draw stroke, fire 15, rounds, reload fire 15 rounds. Total of 30 rounds.

There is still some number crunching to be done but the preliminary observation is that the Echelon is hotter than most other examples.
For instance in the first groups of 10 shooters:

Drill 1 - 45 rounds, the Echelon was 108 degrees, and 9 degrees hotter than the average of the sample group.

Drill 2 - 45 Rounds, the Echelon was 108 degrees again, and 3 degrees hotter than the average of the sample group.

Drill 3 - 30 Rounds, the Echelon was 106 degrees, and 8 degrees hotter than the average of the sample group.

Again more number crunching should be done but I’ll note some observations. The Echelon typically was the hottest after two of the three drills in each of three groups. It was rivaled for highest temps overall by a Walter PPQ, a particular Glock 19, and the Sig 226.
The coolest guns were typically Glocks, in particular two Zev guns that had the open slide cuts. The majority of guns were 9mm, just one 40 S&W and one 45 ACP in the group.


If we look at just the Echelon by itself the numbers were:
108, 108, 106
115, 122, 111
117, 126, 117
The day was getting hotter over the 3.5 hours and all the pistols in the groups had similar higher starting numbers as the day heated up.


Now, the question of just how much hotter 3-9 degrees is becomes another topic. A quick look at antiscald.com states that a second degree burn will happen in:
113 degrees in 2 Hours
116.6 degrees in 20 Minutes
118.4 degrees in 15 Minutes
120 degrees in 8 Minutes
124 degrees in 2 Minutes
131 degrees in 17 Seconds
140 degrees in 3 Seconds

The lowest temperature after a string for the Echelon from any of the three groups was 108 degrees the highest was 127 degrees. Comparing that to the chart it appears it could be quite hot to the touch at 127 degrees.

I feel this was a fair comparison to 29 other handguns, all things considered. I feel the claim of “hotter” is indeed accurate. Feel free to use it, or discard the information as you wish.
Click to expand...
Thank you for putting the work you did I to gathering the data for some insight into this.

If it helps, I purchased the echelon with an intention for duty use, maybe some local competition use. I do understand that the heat issue would mostly be a problem during training and, God forbid, I have to use it against someone. The heat would not be an issue (most likely).

I test fired the Echelon when my agency had SA come out for a demo. I didn't notice the issue then. And I was running the range. Was more curious if this is a common problem, or if it was something I really needed to get on SA for a warranty fix.
 
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