Hunter Vision: Why Your Eyes See Green Better

[Bassbob]

Overall, I agree, with that one exception -

*_Quality_* modern green lasers - even at the reduced power that's typical for the open consumer market - are viable at upwards of 40 to 70 yards in full daylight. Both the DBAL D2 and the MAWL C1+ are capable of this type of performance.

I've yet to get my hands on a Surefire X400U-Green or the XC-2-Green, so I can't say, really, with respect to pistol-WMLs.

Sure. You got 2k-3k to drop on a laser ? Most of the guns we are talking about here don't cost that much. Not that I am opposed to dropping a couple grand on an optic, but if I am it would be an ACOG or maybe a thermal scope or at a minimum an infrared laser.

 

[TSiWRX]

You got 2k-3k to drop on a laser ?

^ The problem isn't spending good money for good products - the problem is that folks continue to waste money on inferior products in the hopes that it will provide them with "adequate" performance.

The sad truth is that the vast majority of the stuff out there is just junk - either it won't hold zero or is extremely difficult to zero or suffer from electronics and switchgear (if not the body casing and mounting interface and hardware) problems that are either (hopefully) apparent after just hundreds (if not tens) of rounds (or worse yet, are simply slapped onto the gun without the shooter even actually seriously having practiced with it).

A laser is a true aiming alternative to the weapon's primary sights. SMEs in this area have, as of the last half-decade, even suggested for their professional users that the modern laser should actually be their secondary/backup sighting system (relegating the BUIS to a tertiary role). Even us average-Joes/Janes who are looking at using lasers on our defensive weapons should understand not only the *realistic* pros/cons of what they've selected, but also be aware of issues such as mount deficiencies or rail/handguard deflection.

The laser is no different of an accessory than any other that goes on one's weapons, and folks should realize the difference between buying accessories that just make them feel good or makes their guns look pretty, versus adding items that can actually help them in the context of their imagined fight.

I want to clarify something here, too -

I'm not saying any of this because I'm riding from on-high.

I don't have a MAWL. I don't have a DBAL. I don't have an OTAL or ITAL or Raptor. I've got *_nothing_*. I don't even have an X400U.

What I *_have_* owned are embarrassingly tens of those awful "almost as good" devices that truly never are, that have failed in just the ways that I've cited here in the earlier paragraphs.

I know that what I've written above likely won't win me any friends because the owners of such "almost as good" devices will see it as some sort of personal assault that I'm waging against them.

But friends and fellow members, believe me, it's not.

Rather, this comes from having spent my own money on those same pieces of trash, and only much later having been shown and have experienced first-hand what the really good stuff can do.

Save your money. Buy something that actually meets your needs, instead of something that "might" or is "almost as good."

 

[Bassbob]

^ The problem isn't spending good money for good products - the problem is that folks continue to waste money on inferior products in the hopes that it will provide them with "adequate" performance.

The sad truth is that the vast majority of the stuff out there is just junk - either it won't hold zero or is extremely difficult to zero or suffer from electronics and switchgear (if not the body casing and mounting interface and hardware) problems that are either (hopefully) apparent after just hundreds (if not tens) of rounds (or worse yet, are simply slapped onto the gun without the shooter even actually seriously having practiced with it).

A laser is a true aiming alternative to the weapon's primary sights. SMEs in this area have, as of the last half-decade, even suggested for their professional users that the modern laser should actually be their secondary/backup sighting system (relegating the BUIS to a tertiary role). Even us average-Joes/Janes who are looking at using lasers on our defensive weapons should understand not only the *realistic* pros/cons of what they've selected, but also be aware of issues such as mount deficiencies or rail/handguard deflection.

The laser is no different of an accessory than any other that goes on one's weapons, and folks should realize the difference between buying accessories that just make them feel good or makes their guns look pretty, versus adding items that can actually help them in the context of their imagined fight.

That's like saying anything less than an ACOG is wasting your money. Which is of course, BS. There are plenty of lasers that don't cost anywhere near $1600 that hold zero perfectly well. If a laser actually does exist that is perfectly visible in broad daylight at 70 yards, the question really is " Are you going to spend $1600 on a back up sight? " Of course assuming that you never plan to engage a target further than 70 yards away.

 

[TSiWRX]

^ The problem with that analysis is that optics have now had decades to play the catch-up game. We're seeing this occur in rapid-succession now with the items introduced at SHOT this past year.

With lasers, this just hasn't been the case.

Will it be, one day?

I don't doubt it, and I hope it happens sooner rather than later.

But for the time being?

Like I wrote above, I literally have had tens of those "almost as good" devices, and they were never "almost as good." Each of them have failed in one way or another in precisely the ways that I've described. They either won't hold zero or were extremely difficult to zero or suffered from electronics and switchgear (if not the body casing and mounting interface and hardware) problems that are either (hopefully) apparent after just hundreds (if not tens) of rounds. There's reasons why those products aren't found attached to guns that see serious use, and rather star on Instagram posts in the hands of gun-bunnies or other influencers.

How long ago was it that Trijicon's RMR was really the only game in town where it came to the micro-RDS?

How long ago was it that the Aimpoint Comp series or the Trijicon ACOG and Reflex dominated that portion of the market?

[ That said, for each of those types of RDS, how many of the lower-tier items are known to be problematic? ]

The way I see it, we really don't yet have those same "tiers" between the top-shelf items and the bottom-of-the-trough toys that polarizes the weapon-laser market today. I'm sure we'll get there in a bit - but for the time being, yup, one can either hope for a really overcast day to see that $200 green laser, or pony up ten times that go actually get in the game.

 

[Bassbob]

^ You have had a Viridian HS-1 fail on you ?

 

[TSiWRX]

^ No, I haven't tried one of those...yet - but at the same time, based on my previous experiences with Viridian products (an X5L that I owned, and two separate REACTORs on friends' LCPs), I'm reluctant to make the investment, even at its relatively low street-price.

The other reason I likely will not try the HS-1 is because aside from my LMT MRP CQB 16, I don't have a viable platform (in terms of my ARs) on which to truly take advantage of a laser, due to rail deflection (I'd like to try it on my c.2012 DDM4V5LW, as it still wears that porky old quad-rail...but I spent my fun-money this quarter on the extendos for the XDM - https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/xdm-9mm-35-rd-mag-initial-report.10081/)....

 

[Bassbob]

^ No, I haven't tried one of those...yet - but at the same time, based on my previous experiences with Viridian products (an X5L that I owned, and two separate REACTORs on friends' LCPs), I'm reluctant to make the investment, even at its relatively low street-price.

The other reason I likely will not try the HS-1 is because aside from my LMT MRP CQB 16, I don't have a viable platform (in terms of my ARs) on which to truly take advantage of a laser, due to rail deflection (I'd like to try it on my c.2012 DDM4V5LW, as it still wears that porky old quad-rail...but I spent my fun-money this quarter on the extendos for the XDM - https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/xdm-9mm-35-rd-mag-initial-report.10081/)....

I have one on a 10.5" unbraced 5.56 pistol. It hasn't moved or failed, though I have a relatively low round count through that one ( maybe 1000 so far). It's primary designation besides range fun is HD, so indoors. Its also not the primary sighting device. It also sports a Romeo 5 and flip up BUIS.

 

[TSiWRX]

I actually really like the idea of having the laser as the backup/secondary. What Chappy says about compromised/disadvantaged positions makes sense to me, especially as I'm not the most "bendy" guy.

^ You don't want to see me shooting that middle mouse-hole. That gets ugly, and I tend to split my pants......

The other thing that made me question my thoughts about the BUIS is how many times the cadre at the Alliance PD Training Facility have seen their students deploy their BUIS upon breakage of their primary optic - their count has been exactly zero.....

Maybe when my fun-fund replenishes I'll give a look at the HS-1. That round-count you've got on yours is at least one step in the right direction. I'll have to sacrifice my usual 6-o'clock rail mount for it, but heck, at least for a couple of range-days banging it into barricades, I can make-do, right?