I would like to see a subcompact comparison

[youngolddude]

Everyone knows the subcompact gun segment is hot. Wouldn't it be useful and/or interesting to see a comparison of the top subcompact models? Years ago I enjoyed a comparison by Guns and Ammo (?). They had multiple guns that were briefly reviewed and shot by multiple testers. At the end, they voted on what they thought were winners and they noted pros and cons of each candidate. As I recall, only one or two didn't have any issues with the ammo. I think it would be a great time to have someone do it again with guns such as the 365, Hellcat, Shield Plus, Ruger Max 9, etc. with models that have with 10-12 rounds minimum. What say ye?

 

[Sld1959]

Gun tests runs such comparisons all the time. I don't know as what models have been done in it memory going I guess lol. But I will jeep and eye out. And maybe look thru back issues.

The big problem is how fast they are coming out the past year.

 

[Sld1959]

Just a quick google, I am sure there are more recent ones I have seen

Subcompact 9mm Pistols: Our Pick for Concealed Carry and Combat - Gun Tests

Can the somewhat contradictory natures of concealed-carry guns and combat sidearms be reconciled in a single product thats low-key but still quick to target? We certainly hoped so when we tested three 9mm subcompacts, because a concealable piece that the shooter cant easily bring into play is...

www.gun-tests.com

Polymer 9mm Subcompact Pistols: Two Rivals Try to Challenge Glock - Gun Tests

In this test we had a chance to shoot two 9mm pistols that take aim at Glocks throne as the most popular polymer pistol. They are the Taurus PT 111 Millennium Pro and the Smith & Wesson SW99 Compact. Actually, we would classify both of these pistols as subcompact due to their overall dimensions...

www.gun-tests.com

9mm Subcompact Shoot-out: Nano, LC9s, and the XD-S 3.3 - Gun Tests

Subcompact 9mm handguns are very popular carry guns, and in the past we have tested various 9mm compacts that are basically scaled-down service pistols, such as the Glock 26 and the Smith & Wesson Military & Police Compact. In contrast, the handguns covered in this report are 9mm subcompacts...

www.gun-tests.com

Modern 9mm Subcompacts: CZ-USA, Glock, Steyr Compete - Gun Tests

It goes without saying that compact and subcompact pistols chambered in 9mm Luger are a highly desirable form of personal protection. The 9mm offers acceptable ballistics without harsh recoil, and 9mm pistols from a quality maker are famously reliable. Also, 9mm compact pistols are often based...

www.gun-tests.com

 

[HansGruber]

Everyone knows the subcompact gun segment is hot. Wouldn't it be useful and/or interesting to see a comparison of the top subcompact models? Years ago I enjoyed a comparison by Guns and Ammo (?). They had multiple guns that were briefly reviewed and shot by multiple testers. At the end, they voted on what they thought were winners and they noted pros and cons of each candidate. As I recall, only one or two didn't have any issues with the ammo. I think it would be a great time to have someone do it again with guns such as the 365, Hellcat, Shield Plus, Ruger Max 9, etc. with models that have with 10-12 rounds minimum. What say ye?

Define subcompact.

I have a HK P30SK (SK= SubKompakt) that’s massive compare to, say, a Sig 365…

 

[SimonRL]

Here’s a few more:

Best Sub-Compact Single-Stack 9mm for CCW

Want the best concealed carry gun? You'll want to start with a single stack sub-compact 9mm. We take a look at the pros/cons and why they are so popular.

www.pewpewtactical.com

The Best Micro 9mm Handguns of 2024

The best micro 9mm handguns are versatile carry guns with a lot of features and firepower in a small package. Here are my top picks.

www.outdoorlife.com

Compact Handguns: We Rate the Top 10 Picks for Concealed Carry

These 10 compact handguns would all be perfect for concealed carry. We score them by stopping power, weight, ease of use and price.

www.wideopenspaces.com

 

[BobM]

Define subcompact.

I have a HK P30SK (SK= SubKompakt) that’s massive compare to, say, a Sig 365…

Yes. Would be nice if in some ways there were standards for things that would clarify types better. Used to be with some things in days past. But, good luck with that one anymore? HG's are typically small to begin with, then there's the definition of encountering and using the word small or whatever other size comparison too? Sizes are basically just perspectives and they can change like the wind from person to person, thing to thing and place to place. Likely why some people use barrel size to get some better perspective?

 

[Haroldg48]

Size doesn't matter,
but seriously, the segment is changing so fast. I have a Hellcat, but had a Kimber Micro 9...went from 7 or 8 rounds to 11+ --> 15+ i essentially the same footprint. Since I bought the Hellcat we have the Ruger Max 9, the Mossberg MC2c, and others...They just keep coming.

The Gun Tests comparisons are very dated. It really would be interesting to see side by side comparisons, but YouTube guys are the only place you might see 2 shot as comparisons that I know of.

 

[ChanceMcCall]

One of the problems is how fast things are changing.

I ran a comparison about a year ago for a gun group and before I could get it written up there were already more new guns to compare.

The other problem is deciding how to classify the comparison group. All single stack plastic? A mix of strikers and single action 1911 styles.?

 

[tapehoser]

Visually Compare Pistol And Revolver Dimensions, Weight, Capacity, And More | Handgun Hero

Handgun Hero lets you visually compare any two handguns side-by-side. Compare old pistols vs new pistols, pocket revolvers vs subcompacts, or anything else.

www.handgunhero.com

 

[Haroldg48]

Visually Compare Pistol And Revolver Dimensions, Weight, Capacity, And More | Handgun Hero

Handgun Hero lets you visually compare any two handguns side-by-side. Compare old pistols vs new pistols, pocket revolvers vs subcompacts, or anything else.

www.handgunhero.com

I’ve used that, but it can’t really give insight as to how they shoot…only dimensions and appearance.

 

[BobM]

Visually Compare Pistol And Revolver Dimensions, Weight, Capacity, And More | Handgun Hero

Handgun Hero lets you visually compare any two handguns side-by-side. Compare old pistols vs new pistols, pocket revolvers vs subcompacts, or anything else.

www.handgunhero.com

Is a good site. Have used a few times before. It lists quite a few things like size, weights, lengths, capacities and a few more things in metric or inch measurements. Can change around comparison with a variety of different HG's too.
Doesn't however do range test comparisons.

 

[youngolddude]

The example I gave mentioned a few of the popular subcompacts, not all. 365, Hellcat, Max 9, and Shield Plus. They and others are of the latest subcompact type. Roughly under 20 oz. empty, 10-12 round +, 6 inches long, 4.5 inches high, striker fired and so forth. You could also add models with optic capable, extended mags, but my main point was to compare all of the most common of this type. The example articles given were interesting to a point, but none of them offered were like a comparison of them all in one article. I read articles that interest me, but some of the ones I do read omit some very fine guns in a particular category, they include latest generations and compare them with older tech and sometimes reveal bias.
My recollection of an article was about a dozen single stack compacts that were tested with about 1K rounds each and the results were posted and opinions given. They noted at what round count the FTF or other malfunction occurred and how many failures they had. In that test, Taurus came out with no malfunctions in over 1K rounds right out of the box. There may have been one other, but I forget.
I am curious about this latest evolution, not a bunch of full sizers that got chopped grips and barrels just to have a candidate. The ones I'm thinking about are designed from the ground up, with grips about an inch wide that stuff 10-12 rounds or more into a defensive gun that may have only held 6-8 rounds in a previous related design, such as the Shield. S&W was a leader when they came out with the Shield and promptly sold over a million of these. The 365 and the Hellcat one upped them when they broke onto the scene and S&W belatedly came up with the Shield Plus in pretty much the same size package. Ruger jumped into the fray with the Max 9.
I don't believe I'm alone in wanting to see something like this. Yes, it would be a major ordeal. If it would be too much to consider, maybe it could be scaled back to a more reasonable round count such as 200-500 rounds each. A comprehensive test allows for direct comparisons using multiple testers that would allow for honest feedback. I think it's time.
He-he-he. If a magazine were reluctant to undertake this, I could nominate myself to do it with a few friends and let you know the results.

 

[BobM]

The example I gave mentioned a few of the popular subcompacts, not all. 365, Hellcat, Max 9, and Shield Plus. They and others are of the latest subcompact type. Roughly under 20 oz. empty, 10-12 round +, 6 inches long, 4.5 inches high, striker fired and so forth. You could also add models with optic capable, extended mags, but my main point was to compare all of the most common of this type. The example articles given were interesting to a point, but none of them offered were like a comparison of them all in one article. I read articles that interest me, but some of the ones I do read omit some very fine guns in a particular category, they include latest generations and compare them with older tech and sometimes reveal bias.
My recollection of an article was about a dozen single stack compacts that were tested with about 1K rounds each and the results were posted and opinions given. They noted at what round count the FTF or other malfunction occurred and how many failures they had. In that test, Taurus came out with no malfunctions in over 1K rounds right out of the box. There may have been one other, but I forget.
I am curious about this latest evolution, not a bunch of full sizers that got chopped grips and barrels just to have a candidate. The ones I'm thinking about are designed from the ground up, with grips about an inch wide that stuff 10-12 rounds or more into a defensive gun that may have only held 6-8 rounds in a previous related design, such as the Shield. S&W was a leader when they came out with the Shield and promptly sold over a million of these. The 365 and the Hellcat one upped them when they broke onto the scene and S&W belatedly came up with the Shield Plus in pretty much the same size package. Ruger jumped into the fray with the Max 9.
I don't believe I'm alone in wanting to see something like this. Yes, it would be a major ordeal. If it would be too much to consider, maybe it could be scaled back to a more reasonable round count such as 200-500 rounds each. A comprehensive test allows for direct comparisons using multiple testers that would allow for honest feedback. I think it's time.
He-he-he. If a magazine were reluctant to undertake this, I could nominate myself to do it with a few friends and let you know the results.

Are quite a few of those smaller defensive HG's out there! Heck of an undertaking if every single smaller and newer HG was included in comparison. But, could be a very interesting shoot out, challenge and comparison.

Almost sounds like something Forgotten Weapons could do or help out with in some ways? But, many of those types HG's usually shown there are a bit too old for that direction. But, Ian has the right charisma, direction and knowledge for it though and in some ways the proposition and comparison is a bit off the wall and somewhat forgotten about at times, so?

Other thoughts? Possibly, a larger shooting range with it's many members could sponsor and arrange an event like that using some of it's members many guns, then have someone write an article of the event and video it?

Never know sometimes with what all can happen with enough hands and thoughts on deck? Springfield Armory and other firearms manufacturers may even be interested in helping sponsorship in that direction?

Likely good advertisement and possible moral booster for some and a lot of fun for all too? Much is in how it's all done and organized. In many ways, the timing's right, with interests high in that direction and with so many smaller HG's on the market right now. - Could be a great thing!

 

[KillerFord1977]

 

[BobM]

View attachment 22915

 

[ChanceMcCall]

The example I gave mentioned a few of the popular subcompacts, not all. 365, Hellcat, Max 9, and Shield Plus. They and others are of the latest subcompact type. Roughly under 20 oz. empty, 10-12 round +, 6 inches long, 4.5 inches high, striker fired and so forth. You could also add models with optic capable, extended mags, but my main point was to compare all of the most common of this type. The example articles given were interesting to a point, but none of them offered were like a comparison of them all in one article. I read articles that interest me, but some of the ones I do read omit some very fine guns in a particular category, they include latest generations and compare them with older tech and sometimes reveal bias.
My recollection of an article was about a dozen single stack compacts that were tested with about 1K rounds each and the results were posted and opinions given. They noted at what round count the FTF or other malfunction occurred and how many failures they had. In that test, Taurus came out with no malfunctions in over 1K rounds right out of the box. There may have been one other, but I forget.
I am curious about this latest evolution, not a bunch of full sizers that got chopped grips and barrels just to have a candidate. The ones I'm thinking about are designed from the ground up, with grips about an inch wide that stuff 10-12 rounds or more into a defensive gun that may have only held 6-8 rounds in a previous related design, such as the Shield. S&W was a leader when they came out with the Shield and promptly sold over a million of these. The 365 and the Hellcat one upped them when they broke onto the scene and S&W belatedly came up with the Shield Plus in pretty much the same size package. Ruger jumped into the fray with the Max 9.
I don't believe I'm alone in wanting to see something like this. Yes, it would be a major ordeal. If it would be too much to consider, maybe it could be scaled back to a more reasonable round count such as 200-500 rounds each. A comprehensive test allows for direct comparisons using multiple testers that would allow for honest feedback. I think it's time.
He-he-he. If a magazine were reluctant to undertake this, I could nominate myself to do it with a few friends and let you know the results.

Then the question is, "Who is going to pay for all of this"?

The magazines of yore don't have the budgets anymore. Gun Tests comes the closest in my mind anyway but they also have limits. Most of the internet and You Tubers lack the funds, even the ones who are authorities and that's darn few.

If you want to buy or borrow the 20 or so guns and 500 rounds of ammo for each, I'm all in favor. Just make sure you don't miss any guns and that you put together all that data into readable charts. It should only take you about two weeks with two helpers if you work at it full time.

Don't forget to chrono each load in each pistol and to get the trigger pull of each gun as well as the dimensions. A holster comparison for each gun and draw and hit speeds would be nice as well from both inside the belt and on the belt concealed. (From the testing I did, there were some real surprises on speed and hits. It also varied a bit from shooter to shooter.)

Good luck! It will be a seminal article.

 

[BobM]

Then the question is, "Who is going to pay for all of this"?

The magazines of yore don't have the budgets anymore. Gun Tests comes the closest in my mind anyway but they also have limits. Most of the internet and You Tubers lack the funds, even the ones who are authorities and that's darn few.

If you want to buy or borrow the 20 or so guns and 500 rounds of ammo for each, I'm all in favor. Just make sure you don't miss any guns and that you put together all that data into readable charts. It should only take you about two weeks with two helpers if you work at it full time.

Don't forget to chrono each load in each pistol and to get the trigger pull of each gun as well as the dimensions. A holster comparison for each gun and draw and hit speeds would be nice as well from both inside the belt and on the belt concealed. (From the testing I did, there were some real surprises on speed and hits. It also varied a bit from shooter to shooter.)

Good luck! It will be a seminal article.

Costs are always involved in any project. Spreading the load or burden is likely a good idea as far as costs are concerned if going in or seeking that direction. Is basically why and mainly stated before was or could be a heck of an undertaking and why mentioned possible others involvement. In an ideal world the thought's not a biggie. But, this planet has never been completely ideal for many things.

 

[youngolddude]

Are there really 20 subcompact high capacity guns out there that are popular? Anyway, I think ammo manufacturers would be the primary supporter(s). The gun manufacturers that they feel good about their candidate could loan them for the test. Those that are reluctant could be shamed noted. Start position could be "at the ready" for timed splits, accuracy for x number of shots, chrono for 10 shots and the balance of the test would be for reliability and subjective criteria.

 

[ChanceMcCall]

Are there really 20 subcompact high capacity guns out there that are popular? Anyway, I think ammo manufacturers would be the primary supporter(s). The gun manufacturers that they feel good about their candidate could loan them for the test. Those that are reluctant could be shamed noted. Start position could be "at the ready" for timed splits, accuracy for x number of shots, chrono for 10 shots and the balance of the test would be for reliability and subjective criteria.

Manufacturers have never like this kind of testing. They used to punish publications for doing this type of article and only a few like Combat Handguns would attempt it with any regularity. They had to do it without manufacturer's support.

If the primary criteria is an ideal gun for concealed carry that is effective at stopping threats, I would bet there are at least 20. Some may be less popular but before they are discarded one needs to consider why they are less popular and if they might be actually better guns for the mission. An example might be a Bond Arms Bullpup. One of the reasons you don't see very many of them is their price, which always brings out haters looking for reasons to tear the gun down. The fact is, when we ran our tests a year of so ago, almost every shooter was very surprised by the gun's performance. In several tests, the Bullpup outperformed every other gun being tested.

There are also a few that perform one function very well but do horribly on many of the other tests.

Should guns in .45 ACP be considered? Then the Heizer Defense PKO-45 should be considered despite the fact most gun owners have never heard of it. Or is this test limited only to 9mm? That would eliminate some interesting 9mm Ultra pistols hardly ever seen in the US but a big deal in Europe.

As stated earlier, good luck and I, for one, am looking forward to your opus.

 

[HD63]

Are 1911's safe to carry? Let's recap. If you know how to carry one they are 100% safe.
BUT