testtest

If you didn't think there was a national gun registry....

The FFL reports certain sales.
The ATF records and determines unlawful activity.
So if the FFL or the Buyer or both have an implied involvement in unlawful activity ???
Before any determination?

Show me the man and I’ll show your the crime.
Are they calling multi-purchases probable cause to inspect for the recorded items?
Its prove your not a straw purchaser (unlawful) without and before actually charging of the crime? So if these “house calls” are sort of profiling, looking for bad actors at the household or are they doing any checks in big city locales or is that divisive?

As much as I want to prevent straw purchases by suspicious characters and/or any rogue FFL’s falsifying my personal info, it seems the Agency is only looking to harass the law abiding on many levels. What happens if someone stores their purchases at the cabin out of state? The onus is on the Buyer to comply regardless of expense, time and ability.

Reduction of paperwork act notice, last line:
“An agency may not conduct or sponsor, and a person is not required to respond to, a collection of information unless it displays a currently valid OMB control number.”

- We don’t need no stinkin’ OMB number no more ?
 
Tinyman said:
I (on one visit) put my SA RO Elite, Mrs Tinyman's S&W 380EZ and a 12ga Mossburg 'tactical' shotgun on the 4473. No gummint toads came to see me at the house, mall or post office.
Click to expand...
To clarify -- Went into the LGS (which wasn't all that Local), S\saw the RO Elite-- Mrs Tinyman said "buy it. George (or whatever) started the 4473. He asked if there was anything else -- Mrs T said she'd like to hold the 380EZ -- I said "buy it". George asked if there was anything else -- I looked at the Mossburg -- we both liked it and said "buy it". Only one form, one credit card transaction, left the store.

Should the ATF done anything at all? Not that I really care, but this being post #21, there might be.
 
Tinyman said:
To clarify -- Went into the LGS (which wasn't all that Local), S\saw the RO Elite-- Mrs Tinyman said "buy it. George (or whatever) started the 4473. He asked if there was anything else -- Mrs T said she'd like to hold the 380EZ -- I said "buy it". George asked if there was anything else -- I looked at the Mossburg -- we both liked it and said "buy it". Only one form, one credit card transaction, left the store.

Should the ATF done anything at all? Not that I really care, but this being post #21, there might be.
Click to expand...
by the video about that ATF agent, you could be a "straw purchaser"...
 
Old_Me said:
people, i have to admit, i am confused.

when i buy a gun, or more than 1 at one time, i fill out the form 4473..

then since i have a CCW, they no longer require me to fill out my state's form.

a "simple" phone call to check on my background, and it's a done deal..

only AFTER i get approved for a purchase, does the salesman write down the gun, make, model, serial number and caliber, never BEFORE that phone call to NCIC...

so, then, how would the ATF know what i bought, if they do not have that information, before hand?

in fact, so many times, when i went to buy 1 gun, then got the approval, i "sometimes" then buy another gun, since i have been approved with that call....

so this confuses me.

do some states when they call in NCIC, also at the same time, report the serial numbers during that call..????

thanks in advance
Click to expand...
It wasn't chiding, it was conversation. Or so I thought. Relax dude, no one is attacking you.
 
ddeuce22 said:
4473's get turned in to the ATF from any FFL dealer who goes out of business or otherwise stops dealing in firearms and gives up/loses their FFL. On that 4473 is everything about you and what you purchased. If you think the ATF doesn't have a database of this, you are 100% delusional.

@Old_Me - a proceed on a NICS check is only good for that purchase and any items listed on that 4473 when that NICS check was conducted. You can't go "OH I passed my check, let me add some more items". Anything additional would require another background check. Also, that sucks that you have a CCW and they still call the FBI for a check on you lol. And do businesses actually still call in for background checks? good lord it's 2022.
Click to expand...
ok, confirmation on what i was saying about the 4473 form and a "call" (or whatever) to the NCIC for a background check..

i got this TODAY, from the LGS owner...

when i fill out a 4473 form, they "call it in" to the NCIC....

they NEVER write down the gun's serial number, they only say what caliber of gun i want to buy.

i then, either get approved, or denied. (and i have been approved for a few years now)

the NCIC people won't even know if i actually buy the gun, or not.

so there you have it.......

i just don't know where YOU get your information from.
 
Old_Me said:
ok, confirmation on what i was saying about the 4473 form and a "call" (or whatever) to the NCIC for a background check..

i got this TODAY, from the LGS owner...

when i fill out a 4473 form, they "call it in" to the NCIC....

they NEVER write down the gun's serial number, they only say what caliber of gun i want to buy.

i then, either get approved, or denied. (and i have been approved for a few years now)

the NCIC people won't even know if i actually buy the gun, or not.

so there you have it.......

i just don't know where YOU get your information from.
Click to expand...
Because it's the same way in VA, I was curious as to how the ATF agent knew the rifle's serial number. Do Delaware buyers fill out a form for the state that lists handgun and rifle serial numbers? If so then it appears that the state of Delaware keeps all of that information and Delaware authorities are sharing that information with the feds.
 
Recusant said:
Because it's the same way in VA, I was curious as to how the ATF agent knew the rifle's serial number. Do Delaware buyers fill out a form for the state that lists handgun and rifle serial numbers? If so then it appears that the state of Delaware keeps all of that information and Delaware authorities are sharing that information with the feds.
Click to expand...
i'm thinking, it's a federal form, shouldn't that be the same in all US states?

even when i had to fill out a state form (before i got my CCW) NO serial numbers were EVER entered...

maybe in Delaware, (as you say) they have to list the serial number on a state form?

can a state change a federal form..?? i think not, but they can do whatever, on a state form...

but then too, the state would have to communicate with the feds regarding serial numbers...??
 
Recusant said:
Because it's the same way in VA, I was curious as to how the ATF agent knew the rifle's serial number. Do Delaware buyers fill out a form for the state that lists handgun and rifle serial numbers? If so then it appears that the state of Delaware keeps all of that information and Delaware authorities are sharing that information with the feds.
Click to expand...
They would have to get it from the FFL he bought it at.
 
Recusant said:
As far back as the mid-80s when I had an FFL the ATF records inspector would copy everything that was in my bound book. Some said then what some may still say today is that such actions have never been approved by Congress. Just know that Big Brother has his eye on us!
Click to expand...
That’s definitely not SOP. My dad as well as one of my best friends both had FFLs in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s and no one ever copied any of their records.
 
Recusant said:
Assuming that this video is on the up and up, and the woman here is an ATF agent this might explain why people have AFT show up at their houses to check on serial numbers:

Click to expand...
Holy crap, Recusant...I saw this video on my youtube algorithm recommended list, but didn't watch it until you linked it here. As you said if it's a real video, I hope it gets around to those who can rectify this.
 
Recusant said:
Assuming that this video is on the up and up, and the woman here is an ATF agent this might explain why people have AFT show up at their houses to check on serial numbers:

Click to expand...
(If Real) it’s bad on so many levels, first her attitude is reprehensible and taking pictures? Wow but the idea that she was using her “personal” cell phone should be enough to file criminal charges against her let alone the ATF.
 
Recusant said:
More information:

Click to expand...
I won’t go down the rabbit hole and be gender specific so I’ll just say
“that agent” needs to be put on a leash and reigned in, if all this is found to be true and investigated as it should be that agent used poor judgment in how that agent boosted on the position of authority by the rude comment
“I’ll just take your license now” and then if and when it’s discovered that a personal cell phone was used to record personal/private information that should border on criminal charges.
 
Recusant said:
Assuming that this video is on the up and up, and the woman here is an ATF agent this might explain why people have AFT show up at their houses to check on serial numbers:

Click to expand...
Sorry but in this case the dealers FFL is supposedly revoked and in the middle of a criminal investigation. Sure maybe she was a total PITA to deal with vs other IOI’s however with sales in question the bound book is the first thing they use to prove it disprove.
 
ECS686 said:
Sorry but in this case the dealers FFL is supposedly revoked and in the middle of a criminal investigation. Sure maybe she was a total PITA to deal with vs other IOI’s however with sales in question the bound book is the first thing they use to prove it disprove.
Click to expand...
what is IOI....???
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top