Illinois Institutes Universal Background Checks, Gun
- Thread starter Annihilator
- Start date
Old_Me
SAINT
even thought one my not knowingly sell to a criminal, if that person does commit a crime, maybe you won't be charged with the crime as an accessory (or whatever), but i do believe that the civil lawsuits that follow, will bury the seller.
Old_Me
SAINT
i'd still "prefer" an FFL, so i can wash my hands of future responsibility, civil lawsuits, etc.
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
This is simply foolish and nothing more than 'feel good' legislation. The elected leaders of Illinois, and most especially Chicago, have claimed forever that the real root to their so-called "gun problem" stems from the lax gun control laws in their neighbor state Indiana, which anyone with any common sense knew to be nothing more than 'pass the buck' Bullchit. If those lax gun laws were the real problem, the problem would exist in Indiana just as it does in Illinois (Chicago).
How can they possibly reconcile their long time claim of it all being Indiana's fault, but that they can fix it by forcing 'Universal' back ground checks in Illinois. Did I mention it's just all 'Bullchit"?
'Universal' is the 'catch word' to force all firearms transfers, even those between family members, to be somehow, somewhere recorded by some type of gov't intervention. To enforce this to any degree will require a national database of all firearms you/I currently own. They'll argue that's not the case, but then won't be able to explain how it can be enforced in any other way.
I have sold/gifted several firearms to others over many years and have never, not even once, transferred any firearm to anyone whom I didn't know personally to have been a responsible, law-abiding citizen and gun owner. I personally resent being checked over on my decisions of how to dispense of my personal, private possessions, even firearms.
If it starts with the gov't presiding over who I can gift/sell my personal firearms to, it will eventually become a situation of the gov't presiding over who I can gift/sell my coin collection, my fishing gear, my family heirlooms, my personal vehicles, etc, etc, etc.
It's already currently a violation of law for anyone to sell, gift, or otherwise transfer any firearm to anyone whom you know, "or should have known", to not be a lawful recipient of that firearm. It's also a violation of current law for any prohibited person to take possession of any firearm. My suggestion would be to begin enforcing these laws, and other similar laws currently on the books before making any new ones. Especially ones that will in no way hinder nor inconvenience the bad guys, but will add one more example of where our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms and rights are being slowly diminished.
If any legislator can propose any gun law that negatively impacts the bad guys, and does in no way impact the good guys, and that they can/will fully enforce, they'll have my full support. However, any 'feel good' legislation such as 'Universal' BG checks that negatively impacts the good guys, or that cannot be enforced without negatively impacting the good guys, is a non-starter and will be respectfully, lawfully, and fully resisted.
Just remember the first claims by the anti-s as to the need for the original BG checks was that it would prevent those criminal, crazy, and druggies from obtaining a gun. I say that's BS. No BG check has ever prevented any criminal, crazy, and or druggie from obtaining a firearm.
Maybe, just maybe it prevented him/her from obtaining that particular firearm at that particular time, but in no way did it, nor could it prevent them from obtaining one off the street or from an any unscrupulous seller. If they truly wanted one, they got one ..... you can rest assured of that. All the BG checks in the world will not/cannot prevent it.
And worst that that, look back at any period of time where BG checks have been in place and research the number of those prosecuted and either cleared or convicted of those who were denied. The percentage of those prosecuted is literally pathetic. Just what is the point if the ones denied are not prosecuted and are still able to go to the street and/or unscrupulous dealers to get a gun. And what is the impact on those who, for whatever reason were wrongly denied and are provided little to no help in correcting whatever the denial was incorrectly based on.
I'm done ...... YMMV!
How can they possibly reconcile their long time claim of it all being Indiana's fault, but that they can fix it by forcing 'Universal' back ground checks in Illinois. Did I mention it's just all 'Bullchit"?
'Universal' is the 'catch word' to force all firearms transfers, even those between family members, to be somehow, somewhere recorded by some type of gov't intervention. To enforce this to any degree will require a national database of all firearms you/I currently own. They'll argue that's not the case, but then won't be able to explain how it can be enforced in any other way.
I have sold/gifted several firearms to others over many years and have never, not even once, transferred any firearm to anyone whom I didn't know personally to have been a responsible, law-abiding citizen and gun owner. I personally resent being checked over on my decisions of how to dispense of my personal, private possessions, even firearms.
If it starts with the gov't presiding over who I can gift/sell my personal firearms to, it will eventually become a situation of the gov't presiding over who I can gift/sell my coin collection, my fishing gear, my family heirlooms, my personal vehicles, etc, etc, etc.
It's already currently a violation of law for anyone to sell, gift, or otherwise transfer any firearm to anyone whom you know, "or should have known", to not be a lawful recipient of that firearm. It's also a violation of current law for any prohibited person to take possession of any firearm. My suggestion would be to begin enforcing these laws, and other similar laws currently on the books before making any new ones. Especially ones that will in no way hinder nor inconvenience the bad guys, but will add one more example of where our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms and rights are being slowly diminished.
If any legislator can propose any gun law that negatively impacts the bad guys, and does in no way impact the good guys, and that they can/will fully enforce, they'll have my full support. However, any 'feel good' legislation such as 'Universal' BG checks that negatively impacts the good guys, or that cannot be enforced without negatively impacting the good guys, is a non-starter and will be respectfully, lawfully, and fully resisted.
Just remember the first claims by the anti-s as to the need for the original BG checks was that it would prevent those criminal, crazy, and druggies from obtaining a gun. I say that's BS. No BG check has ever prevented any criminal, crazy, and or druggie from obtaining a firearm.
Maybe, just maybe it prevented him/her from obtaining that particular firearm at that particular time, but in no way did it, nor could it prevent them from obtaining one off the street or from an any unscrupulous seller. If they truly wanted one, they got one ..... you can rest assured of that. All the BG checks in the world will not/cannot prevent it.
And worst that that, look back at any period of time where BG checks have been in place and research the number of those prosecuted and either cleared or convicted of those who were denied. The percentage of those prosecuted is literally pathetic. Just what is the point if the ones denied are not prosecuted and are still able to go to the street and/or unscrupulous dealers to get a gun. And what is the impact on those who, for whatever reason were wrongly denied and are provided little to no help in correcting whatever the denial was incorrectly based on.
I'm done ...... YMMV!
wmg1299
Professional
According to the distinguished Mayor Lightfoot, the only reason crime went down in states like Kansas is because all of the criminals in Kansas brought their guns to Chicago. Those out-of-state criminals (most of whom were white supremacists) then sold their guns to children at school carnivals using the "gunshow loophole". You may try to dispute this narrative, but the White House and the entire mainstream media swear that it's true.
Bassbob
Emissary
That's ridiculous.
Pitdogg2
Professional
By that logic if you privately sell a car and the driver gets drunk and kills someone then you're liable for civil lawsuits as well as you should have known he had a past DUI
Do we do background checks for DUI, speeding etc to sell a car?
Bassbob
Emissary
It's like trigger jobs on carry guns. Much gnashing of teeth about it on the interwebs, but no one can point to an example of it actually happening. I am, as always, willing to be proven wrong.
You raised many good points JJ,
Am thinking Chicago's issues are of their own making from top of ladder on down and likely go much deeper than any firearm issues? Their issues are not in every single area of most other communities of this country that have seen or heard of. It's mostly larger, harder to maintain and navigate cities and areas that are effected by violence of most sorts. So, why should Chicago's or another places sad affairs effect the whole country? They shouldn't. Sort of like someone in another part of the country controlling buildings thermostats for another part of the country? Results? Just spreads more ignorance on grander scale?
My thoughts are 99% of gun control in the USA is plain old B.S. - Bureaucratic Shenanigans to make someone else feel good, more self important or possible ease individual burdens by usually screwing things up worse than they already are for the whole country at the expense of the whole country. Using guns as a scapegoat is a mostly lame excuse exaserbated by something else and of the actions of possibly desperate criminally minded people, usually made worse by some unqualified officials behind those in government helping to create monsters in our closets and under beds.
Simply put, it's ignorance of guns and many other things competent leaders should already know about to be good leaders in the 1st place. It's not really showing good leadership skills if they haven't figured out yet that it's not the guns, it's the individual person? If it wasn't a firearm, it likely could be something else just as wrong. With all public officials, personal liability may help solve that ignorance issue from spreading? Good old tar and feathers might help remind them too? Yes, sarcasm.
Gun crimes and violence? Guns caused how much? Some? All? Why is that crime there anyways? Balance's skewed somehow? Stress caused by other things because too much, too little of what? Happy, well cared for people rarely cause discontent or issues except accidentally. Much of what's currently in society doesn't seem accidental either unless caused by someone's incompetence?
In general, most people from all over the country, from other countries are good hearted and well natured people from most walks of life in my experience. Where'd all these off kilter people ignorant of our ways people come from? No they aren't usually aliens from another country....or planet, they're generally US citizens. But, why are they here? Unfortunately, mostly the ignorance and at times greed usually hides them fairly well in our asphalt and concrete jungles? What's the cause? Seeds of what's sown? ....My best guess is lack of good parental, other societal guidance like useful and meaningful education while growing up in too many cases, but not all.... it's far from what any gun control could or would remedy. Like Chicago's issues, am thinking it's far deeper than what's on the surface.
Old_Me
SAINT
you cannot compare the 2, and you know it.
cuz then, you'd have to include ALL car dealerships as well.
Old_Me
SAINT
i saw a you tube video, from Paul Harrel, and i do believe he did point out a court case (Arizona i think??) where the prosecutor, did grill a gun owner. how that ended, i cannot recall.
he has many videos, so to try and find this particular one, will take me some time, and i got things to do today, but i will try my best to find it later.
Old_Me
SAINT
may be ridiculous, but you wanna chance the civil lawsuits?
sure, anyone can sue anyone, it's whether or not, one wins.
Bassbob
Emissary
I promise you my choice not to sell guns to people I don’t know has zero to do with lawsuits. Do you have an example of this happening ? It’s like avoiding Kansas because you may encounter Munchkins and flying monkeys.
Bassbob
Emissary
Are you listening to yourself?
Bottom line, unless you knowingly sell a gun to a prohibited person and they can prove it, it’s a non issue.