In a little bind

[ddeuce22]

I'd consider the Sig Sauer M400 Tread over those two. Can be found in the $850 - $900 range and comes with better furniture (assuming you get the BCM version of the SV. The B5 version is better imo if you go with the SV), a stainless steel barrel, and low profile gas block. Good bones to build off of. Just my personal preference if you are not looking to build but want a decent entry-level to low-mid tier AR.

 

[Keithford]

I'd consider the Sig Sauer M400 Tread over those two. Can be found in the $850 - $900 range and comes with better furniture (assuming you get the BCM version of the SV. The B5 version is better imo if you go with the SV), a stainless steel barrel, and low profile gas block. Good bones to build off of. Just my personal preference if you are not looking to build but want a decent entry-level to low-mid tier AR.

I’ve not heard anything about the m400 tread but I do want BCM furniture no matter what just feel it’s better but for my first ar I rather a completed one my next ar I will be building a full BCM Reese. How many rounds have you put through the m400?

 

[HansGruber]

I’ve not heard anything about the m400 tread but I do want BCM furniture no matter what just feel it’s better but for my first ar I rather a completed one my next ar I will be building a full BCM Reese. How many rounds have you put through the m400?

Why get a lesser rifle first? Get the top-shelf from the get-go.

 

[SimonRL]

Well, this being a SA forum I should vote for the Saint. I am an IWI fan boy though so I vote Zion.

By the way, I never had issues but I had questions. IWI answers their emails in a friendly, helpful and prompt manner.

I’m with @Bassbob. IWI for the win. Plus Honest Outlaw gave it a very good review.

 

[SimonRL]

But you can’t really go wrong with the Saint either.

If the Tread is in the mix that’s a different story.

 

[Bassbob]

I'd take the Saint or the Zion over the Tread. Hell, might as well get the Ruger.

I'll tell you what I did. I got an Adams Arms Voodoo Innovations Witch Doctor, which I consider close to on par with the Zion. Most of the rifle is mil spec, but the barrels are pretty nice. This was my first AR, a few months after covid started and I knew nothing about them when I bought it. After I got it I started taking it apart and reading and asking questions ( mostly here) and I built my second, third, fourth, etc.

This is the one I finished last week. Wilson Combat stripped lower, PSA LPK + Strike Industries enhanced bolt catch and mag release. B5 SOPMOD stock, Wilson Combat BCM Gunfighter Mod 3 pistol grip, Hiperfire Designated Marksman FCG, Wilson Combat Ranger 16" upper, Holosun 510c, Unadyne C2 flip ups and a Magpul MS-1 sling.

 

[Bassbob]

This is what the Witch Doctor looked like when I got it other than the Romeo 5.

These days it sports Magpul furniture and a magnifier.

 

[Bassbob]

I’m with you.

At the $800 range…I’m building. Should be able to make a pretty decent rifle with a decent optic for that price.

I agree with you. With a budget of $800 you can buy an Aero stripped lower, an Aero M4E1 complete upper and have money left over for a good LPK, maybe a PSA EPT kit, and a Romeo 5.

Not counting the optic I have about a grand in that Wilson.

 

[Talyn]

Get the best barrel you can, a nice BCG like a Faxon, as well as a good trigger like the LaRue MBT-2S which is a great deal for a self-defense AR.

 

[Talyn]

Why get a lesser rifle first? Get the top-shelf from the get-go.

Ditto

 

[Bassbob]

Get the best barrel you can, a nice BCG like a Faxon, as well as a good trigger like the LaRue MBT-2S which is a great deal for a self-defense AR.

If you can get one of those PSA premium FN barrels you turned me on to on sale you're off to a great start.

 

[Keithford]

I'd take the Saint or the Zion over the Tread. Hell, might as well get the Ruger.

I'll tell you what I did. I got an Adams Arms Voodoo Innovations Witch Doctor, which I consider close to on par with the Zion. Most of the rifle is mil spec, but the barrels are pretty nice. This was my first AR, a few months after covid started and I knew nothing about them when I bought it. After I got it I started taking it apart and reading and asking questions ( mostly here) and I built my second, third, fourth, etc.

This is the one I finished last week. Wilson Combat stripped lower, PSA LPK + Strike Industries enhanced bolt catch and mag release. B5 SOPMOD stock, Wilson Combat BCM Gunfighter Mod 3 pistol grip, Hiperfire Designated Marksman FCG, Wilson Combat Ranger 16" upper, Holosun 510c, Unadyne C2 flip ups and a Magpul MS-1 sling.

This is basically what I would want todo, is after the first one I buy build one up

 

[Keithford]

Why get a lesser rifle first? Get the top-shelf from the get-go.

It’s not really about getting a lesser rifle, It’s that I’ve considered these in the poll as a starter the rest of my ar15s would be better because I would build them up, for now I’m looking to get one for home defense

 

[ddeuce22]

I’ve not heard anything about the m400 tread but I do want BCM furniture no matter what just feel it’s better but for my first ar I rather a completed one my next ar I will be building a full BCM Reese. How many rounds have you put through the m400?

i've got 3600 rounds through the M400 so far and have had no issues, shoots great and for a mid tier AR is very accurate. IWI makes fine stuff, i've only got experience with the Masada and Jericho pistols though.

I own a few Springfield guns as well, including 3 Saint Victors (One was in .308 and I had MAJOR issues with it, so it got sold and replaced with an M1A) but the .300 blk and the 9mm PCC are absolutely good to go. I think if I had to pick between the two you listed i'd go with the Saint Victor.

If you like BCM furniture then more power to ya, everyone is different and there is no right or wrong on that front, just comes down to what is comfortable for you.

 

[Bassbob]

It might actually take a rifle or two to figure out what you like. I know it did me. I outfitted my first couple with Magpul furniture. Then 10mm turned me on to the B5 SOPMOD and I tried the BCM GF Mod 3 grip.

I heard some bad things about the Tread, but coincidentally I read a review on them that came from CTD this morning and they look like pretty solid guns. SS Barrel that shoots 1.5" groups at 100 yards. Upper and lower tension screw. Everything else is easily replaceable if desired. So I have to modify my advice a little. I vote IWI or Tread over the Saint Victor.

 

[ddeuce22]

It might actually take a rifle or two to figure out what you like. I know it did me. I outfitted my first couple with Magpul furniture. Then 10mm turned me on to the B5 SOPMOD and I tried the BCM GF Mod 3 grip.

I heard some bad things about the Tread, but coincidentally I read a review on them that came from CTD this morning and they look like pretty solid guns. SS Barrel that shoots 1.5" groups at 100 yards. Upper and lower tension screw. Everything else is easily replaceable if desired. So I have to modify my advice a little. I vote IWI or Tread over the Saint Victor.

Think I know a guy who highly recommended the BCM/Wilson Combat Grip

 

[Bassbob]

Think I know a guy who highly recommended the BCM/Wilson Combat Grip

Essentially it is a WC branded ( starburst logo) BCM Gunfighter Mod 3. Which is currently my favorite. The next order I make, which will be soon, for a hand stop and possibly a WML, I am going to order a Magpul MOE Plus grip. I've heard good things and want to see for myself. Other than the latest one, all my ARs have Magpul grips.

 

[Keithford]

It might actually take a rifle or two to figure out what you like. I know it did me. I outfitted my first couple with Magpul furniture. Then 10mm turned me on to the B5 SOPMOD and I tried the BCM GF Mod 3 grip.

I heard some bad things about the Tread, but coincidentally I read a review on them that came from CTD this morning and they look like pretty solid guns. SS Barrel that shoots 1.5" groups at 100 yards. Upper and lower tension screw. Everything else is easily replaceable if desired. So I have to modify my advice a little. I vote IWI or Tread over the Saint Victor.

I will look some into the tread I know honest outlaw has had a horrible time with the 556 saint and I’m wanting a 556 rifle only thing about iwi is just trying to find one because there hard to find in stores atm. I do like magpul grips and stocks there not to bad for me

 

[Keithford]

i've got 3600 rounds through the M400 so far and have had no issues, shoots great and for a mid tier AR is very accurate. IWI makes fine stuff, i've only got experience with the Masada and Jericho pistols though.

I own a few Springfield guns as well, including 3 Saint Victors (One was in .308 and I had MAJOR issues with it, so it got sold and replaced with an M1A) but the .300 blk and the 9mm PCC are absolutely good to go. I think if I had to pick between the two you listed i'd go with the Saint Victor.

If you like BCM furniture then more power to ya, everyone is different and there is no right or wrong on that front, just comes down to what is comfortable for you.

I will consider the m400 I’ve also seen that tactical considerations has gave the 556 victor a positive review besides steel casings getting jammed which is what will happen with steel casing anyway if you use them. 3600 rds is a decent bit for a rifle

 

[Bassbob]

I will look some into the tread I know honest outlaw has had a horrible time with the 556 saint and I’m wanting a 556 rifle only thing about iwi is just trying to find one because there hard to find in stores atm. I do like magpul grips and stocks there not to bad for me

Depending on the model I have heard some bad things about the Saint. Many guys here have them and love them and let's face it, when it comes to 5.56 as long as you get one with a nice barrel you'll be ok. The 3 important parts are barrels, BCGs and triggers. And BCGs and triggers are relatively inexpensive and take seconds to replace.

Regarding the tread, one nice feature is that tension screw. I think Aero machines their lowers for one too these days. It can be adjusted to tighten the fit between the lower and the upper. That said I have never had any issues with AR-15 uppers and lowers fitting together so it could be a solution in search of a problem. I am a fan of Stainless Steel barrels though. My Wilson Combat has a Stainless barrel. They guarantee sub 1" groups at 100 yards and it's definitely the most accurate AR I own.