Is the ATF arresting people who purchased Rare Breed triggers?
- Thread starter Recusant
- Start date
TacticalPirate
Master Class
This is really frustrating click bait.
I really wish online personalities behaved with greater discretion and less bombast.
The person arrested in Massachusetts had 38 real NFA violations, and when taken into custody FRTs were merely among his contraband.
He was not targeted for FRTs, 100k plus FRT owners will not be raided and arrested, they didn't do that with bump stocks either.
The manufacturers of FRTs have not been arrested or charged which tells you all you need to know. Consumers will not be charged or arrested either.
The Massachusetts incident is a simple tack on effort in a non gun friendly state to see what they can get to stick, and it will be dropped.
I've spoken to Dan O'Kelly about it and he rolls his eyes at gun tubers and their handwringing.
If the ATF ever does try to criminally charge someone for possessing an FRT it is their fastest path to losing on the issue, and they know that.
I really wish online personalities behaved with greater discretion and less bombast.
The person arrested in Massachusetts had 38 real NFA violations, and when taken into custody FRTs were merely among his contraband.
He was not targeted for FRTs, 100k plus FRT owners will not be raided and arrested, they didn't do that with bump stocks either.
The manufacturers of FRTs have not been arrested or charged which tells you all you need to know. Consumers will not be charged or arrested either.
The Massachusetts incident is a simple tack on effort in a non gun friendly state to see what they can get to stick, and it will be dropped.
I've spoken to Dan O'Kelly about it and he rolls his eyes at gun tubers and their handwringing.
If the ATF ever does try to criminally charge someone for possessing an FRT it is their fastest path to losing on the issue, and they know that.
Recusant
Hellcat
As I understand it, ATF says that procession of parts to convert a semi-auto to full constitutes intent to build an unlicensed NFA weapon. No doubt that this man will be prosecuted for having the 38 Glock switches. They were never legally manufactured and sold to begin with. I figure the gov't may use this as a test case because it will be easier to convince a jury since had the parts to make 38 machine pistols that he had the 4 FRTs to convert semi-auto rifles to full auto. ATF will say that installing a part is the same as machining a receiver which they call manufacturing. However, the FRT was legally made and sold before the gov't stepped in to shut down its manufacture. The gov't should at least come up with a process that would allow legally purchased FRTs to be grandfathered in.
Area52
Professional
Its not the collecting of the fine, the charge or conviction of these “crimes” (mostly civil) they’re interested in. It’s the narrative to arrest/charge/confiscate and publish the incident to garner notoriety and public support.
Most people of everyday stature can hardly afford their healthcare, mortgages or food so there’s offers for pleas deals that will relieve some of the long drawn legal expenses. But the gov’mint gets claim to the issue and it goes down as a small, collective victory and a process of re-education begins. Common day, law abiding folk will eventually stop buying this or that out of that fear.
Firearms and parts are the Crisis
Jail/fines/public exposure is the Demoralization
Loss of income, wealth and debt is the Destabilization
Becoming gun-free is the Normalization
Yuri Bezmenov, Stages of Subversion -
• Demoralization
• Destabilization
• Crisis
• Normalization (The New Normal)
TacticalPirate
Master Class
FRTs do not convert into full auto.
He had 38 Glock switches, which actually are auto sears.
Bassbob
Emissary
Pertinent info. Google “ Illinois state police confiscate guns from over 1000 people”. These were people who had red flag laws against them or had expired or revoked FOID cards.
Nothing to do with the OP, but if you were wondering if your local police would line up with the government if they decided to follow Robert Francis O Rourke’s platform and take your AR-15s, now you know some of them will.
Nothing to do with the OP, but if you were wondering if your local police would line up with the government if they decided to follow Robert Francis O Rourke’s platform and take your AR-15s, now you know some of them will.
Recusant
Hellcat
The Glock switches/auto sears are by ATF definition are classed as machine guns and are illegal to possess unless properly registered and that went out the window in 1986. I understand that FRTs are not conversions in the strict use of the term conversion where some machining was required. I also understand that these triggers force a reset every time the user pulls the trigger which is not how a full auto operates. It looks like until Congress acts, ATF will be free to set the standard for what action it takes.
Funwithfuel
Custom
Encourage your friends and family to vote, help educate them. Drive them to the polls. We gotta evict these clowns . Get your dead relatives to vote, Chicago does it, why aren't you?
The ATF looks for instances like this to try to set a precedent for future administrative actions.
However, they also really love to charge as many things as they think they can get away with so when the plea deal or trial happens they have room to do their dance.
However, they also really love to charge as many things as they think they can get away with so when the plea deal or trial happens they have room to do their dance.
Something else to consider is the SOCTUS ruling against the EPA. Basically, if Congress didn’t specifically give an agency the power to do something, it can’t do it. Shocking I know, that we would have our federal agencies follow the laws instead of making up their own rules.
“The decision by the conservative court majority sets the stage for further limitations on the regulatory power of other agencies as well.
By a vote of 6 to 3, the court said that any time an agency does something big and new – in this case addressing climate change – the regulation is presumptively invalid, unless Congress has specifically authorized regulating in this sphere.”
This has broad implications for the ATF and its decisions against RBTs, bump stocks, braces, etc. It’s going to take time and law suits to shake everything out. But, with SCOTUS sending 4 gun rights cases back to lower courts to have them re-hear the case based on the NYSRPA v NY ruling, even though they had previously been granted certiorari, it is likely that things like mag capacity limits, “assault” weapons bans, and eventually RBTs and brace regulations will all be overturned.
All the more important that a constitutional president be voted in in 2024.
www.npr.org
“The decision by the conservative court majority sets the stage for further limitations on the regulatory power of other agencies as well.
By a vote of 6 to 3, the court said that any time an agency does something big and new – in this case addressing climate change – the regulation is presumptively invalid, unless Congress has specifically authorized regulating in this sphere.”
This has broad implications for the ATF and its decisions against RBTs, bump stocks, braces, etc. It’s going to take time and law suits to shake everything out. But, with SCOTUS sending 4 gun rights cases back to lower courts to have them re-hear the case based on the NYSRPA v NY ruling, even though they had previously been granted certiorari, it is likely that things like mag capacity limits, “assault” weapons bans, and eventually RBTs and brace regulations will all be overturned.
All the more important that a constitutional president be voted in in 2024.
Supreme Court restricts the EPA's authority to mandate carbon emissions reductions
The U.S. Supreme Court, in a 6-3 decision, ruled that the Environmental Protection Agency does not have the authority to mandate carbon emissions from existing power plants.
www.npr.org
Jfal
Professional
As a related side note, several videos have been uploaded on youtube showing ATF agents knocking on peoples' doors asking them to surrender FRT's and/or solvent traps. The targeted citizens apparently all purchased the items on GunBroker (allegedly), from a few specific vendors. No warrants. We must deduce the ATF got the customers' information from the retailer(s).
These were legally purchased items. Without warrants, the ATF cannot force anyone to give up anything. If they knock on your door, you need to ask for a warrant, then ask them to leave and don't say anything.
Some of the vid's show extreme unprofessionalism by the ATF agents, as well as significant, albeit veiled, threats to the citizens for not complying with their request to surrender the items in question.
If you want, I'll grab one of the videos and put it on here...I was too lazy just now...
These were legally purchased items. Without warrants, the ATF cannot force anyone to give up anything. If they knock on your door, you need to ask for a warrant, then ask them to leave and don't say anything.
Some of the vid's show extreme unprofessionalism by the ATF agents, as well as significant, albeit veiled, threats to the citizens for not complying with their request to surrender the items in question.
If you want, I'll grab one of the videos and put it on here...I was too lazy just now...
There's speculation that the sellers on Gun broker are actual agents performing a sting by selling the parts they know who to go after. Also it has the double effect of dissuading any other potential buyers from legit sellers as people don't want the negative attention.
Jfal
Professional
Entirely possible (and likely) about "sting" operations. However, we did see recently video of an ATF agent taking photographs with her personal cell phone of an FFL's log book...every page...who then told the FFL it was so she could transfer the data to a spreadsheet at work with special software. What's that phrase, "It ain't illegal if you don't get caught"?