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It’s Still a Very Good Idea to Have a Conceal Carry Permit in Permitless Carry States

I kept my CCW when my state went to permit-less carry for reciprocity when traveling & purchasing without the phone call.
 
Bassbob said:
Maybe. My state does not let you bypass NCIS when buying a gun if you are a CCW permit holder. I can buy as many guns as I want to regardless of permit status. All the states that I would care about as far as reciprocity are also CC states. I am diametrically opposed to asking the government for permission to arm myself for my and my family's defense. Especially if I don't have to anymore. Plus paying them ? No thanks. There is a reason we went CC and it is a reason I completely agree with.
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It’s really not bypassing the NCIS system, if you have a CCW permit, you already went through an extensive background check, was fingerprinted, that’s how it’s done in Ohio, the dealer just takes your information from your permit and makes a copy of it, the dealer always has the option of not using your permit and call in the background check, there choice
 
I went through the multi-state CCW course a year ago, thinking my CCW license in WI would be of value if traveling. The biggest segment of the class stressed how the training we received would be recognized by a lot of other states, I still would have to apply for (and pay for) state CCW permits almost anywhere I would want to go. For example, MN requires you to report to any county sheriff's office, get finger printed, pay for their state license, and wait for a permit to be mailed. My class was recognized by MN, thus I would not have to take a class in MN. IL does not allow anyone not a resident of IL to carry (except HI).

I guess I learned most importantly you better check where you are going. I'm not willing to pay $50-150 for each state I might travel to visit. I realize that some states today might recognize my WI permit, but every state I'd have to go through does not. I just realized I never looked up Iowa....
 
ddeuce22 said:
I am a strong supporter of citizens having their carry licenses if it's an available option. One of the first things I did when I moved to TX was apply for my LTC. About 8 months after I got it, our "CC" law went into effect.

To be 100% honest, I didn't love the Texas version of constitutional carry. It's kind of horseshit. If you are going to call it CC, Truly make it CC. Don't beat around the bush. It's really more permitless carry than anything else, your ability to carry under the "CC" law is a bit half-baked if you ask me.

It just makes sense to have it, between the reciprocity (38 States if you hold a Texas Resident LTC), the ability to be exempt from the NICS check, and being able to carry in more places plus the clemency granted to you by it in certain situations... It's really a no brainer.

But the biggest thing for me was that I felt the LTC requirement worked and if someone went through the hassle of getting that license, they are someone who is more likely to seek further training and education and end up being a responsible firearm owner/carrier. Not to say someone carrying under CC couldn't or wouldn't be, but I imagine you can see where my concern lies on the other end of the spectrum in that regard.

This was originally a two sentence response and then a bit of word vomit happened. Sorry gents.
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I respect your opinion. A few things though.

1) Please explain how CC law in Texas is half baked.

2) These concerns everyone keeps voicing about the unwashed masses being allowed to carry with no government mandated training or permission ( Which frankly the training you received when you got your Texas LTC is a joke and barely qualifies as training to begin with), can you cite some examples of these plebians carrying their unsanctioned firearms causing problems ?


3) "It just makes sense to have it, between the reciprocity (38 States if you hold a Texas Resident LTC), the ability to be exempt from the NICS check, and being able to carry in more places plus the clemency granted to you by it in certain situations... It's really a no brainer."

I addressed this already. There is no bypassing the NICS in Missouri and even if there was it would still not tempt me to beg the state for permission to carry. Reciprocity is only helpful if you plan on visiting non Constitutional Carry states regularly. I don't. The last thing you mention about clemency ( at least in Missouri) pretty much only applies to government property. There is no force of law behind a "No firearms" sign. Still not enough to persuade me to sign up for the government program.

I'm not saying all these things don't make sense for you brother. Everything ain't for everybody. But it is definitely not a no brainer. Any time you put your name on another government database that isn't a thing you should take lightly. And in Missouri at least, constitutional carry means constitutional carry. Of course we have had CC for a lot longer and have far better 2A protection in Missouri than you do in Texas, but I sure am curious as to why you think Texas CC should be called permitless carry.
 
Annihilator said:
It’s really not bypassing the NCIS system, if you have a CCW permit, you already went through an extensive background check, was fingerprinted, that’s how it’s done in Ohio, the dealer just takes your information from your permit and makes a copy of it, the dealer always has the option of not using your permit and call in the background check, there choice
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In any case, in Missouri if you are buying a gun from a FFL holder they are going to be calling NICS. Even if you're a cop or senator.
 
Bassbob said:
I respect your opinion. A few things though.

1) Please explain how CC law in Texas is half baked.

2) These concerns everyone keeps voicing about the unwashed masses being allowed to carry with no government mandated training or permission ( Which frankly the training you received when you got your Texas LTC is a joke and barely qualifies as training to begin with), can you cite some examples of these plebians carrying their unsanctioned firearms causing problems ?


3) "It just makes sense to have it, between the reciprocity (38 States if you hold a Texas Resident LTC), the ability to be exempt from the NICS check, and being able to carry in more places plus the clemency granted to you by it in certain situations... It's really a no brainer."

I addressed this already. There is no bypassing the NICS in Missouri and even if there was it would still not tempt me to beg the state for permission to carry. Reciprocity is only helpful if you plan on visiting non Constitutional Carry states regularly. I don't. The last thing you mention about clemency ( at least in Missouri) pretty much only applies to government property. There is no force of law behind a "No firearms" sign. Still not enough to persuade me to sign up for the government program.

I'm not saying all these things don't make sense for you brother. Everything ain't for everybody. But it is definitely not a no brainer. Any time you put your name on another government database that isn't a thing you should take lightly. And in Missouri at least, constitutional carry means constitutional carry. Of course we have had CC for a lot longer and have far better 2A protection in Missouri than you do in Texas, but I sure am curious as to why you think Texas CC should be called permitless carry.
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Good morning @Bassbob - Appreciate your response. More than happy to clarify for you my friend.

1. Define what CC means to you. To me it means unfettered ability to purchase, possess, and carry a firearm. That's what CC means to me. Texas "CC" law is far from that. It affords you much less ability to carry than with your LTC. Refer to your "No Firearms" statement. Lots of that here, and while some of them may dictate your ability to carry in private owned businesses/establishments as an LTC holder, there is specific language and format for it. CC can be stopped by a simple sign of a gun with a line through it.

I personally feel that posted signs shouldn't be able to dictate that but we all work within the rules that were unfortunately given to us. I'm not saying im right or wrong. I just think "Constitutional Carry" is thrown around alot and most of the laws are a far cry from that. - Do not confuse or misconstrue this either as me saying actual "CC" is the best idea ever either.

2. You took what I said and twisted it into a slight against a massive group of people and honestly I don't appreciate that. I never once insinuated that all "CC" carriers are lesser, unwashed, unskilled, untrained, or called them Plebs.
I simply stated valid concerns I had in regards to the law possibly encouraging people who may otherwise not have an interest in carrying responsibly and/or with good intention.

I never ever claimed the Texas LTC qualifications and course requisites were anything REMOTELY resembling good training. OR really any training. It's not. The shooting qualification was a joke and the 6 hour class is mostly explaining de-escalation methods, local law, and the criteria that needs to be met for justified use of deadly force. What I DID state was that the process to get your LTC to me, is a good indicator that someone who went through all the hassle is someone with good intentions and is someone more likely to seek further training. (As they should.)

As for citing actual instances? Unfortunately I've seen it, but no I cannot cite a police report or newspaper article, if thtat's what you are asking for. Downtown Austin and surrounding areas are pretty crime ridden and I see people carrying israeli style, no holster, idiots walking around just carrying it their hands (Saw this only once, thank god). One dude had the barrel in his front pocket and the grip just sticking out... lol. Now... does that scenario happen often? No, and thank god it doesn't. But it was a valid concern to me. That concern has lessened alot since the law went into effect initially though.

3. You are correct, what works for me or is ok to me may not be ok or work for you. After I gave them a picture, fingerprints, and even more information on myself, and paid them $200 for a tax stamp on my suppressor, Me worrying about being on a list went out the window.

Either way, It's all good brother. Love talking about this type of stuff.
 
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ddeuce22 said:
Good morning @Bassbob - Appreciate your response. More than happy to clarify for you my friend.

1. Define what CC means to you. To me it means unfettered ability to purchase, possess, and carry a firearm. That's what CC means to me. Texas "CC" law is far from that. It affords you much less ability to carry than with your LTC. Refer to your "No Firearms" statement. Lots of that here, and while some of them may dictate your ability to carry in private owned businesses/establishments as an LTC holder, there is specific language and format for it. CC can be stopped by a simple sign of a gun with a line through it.

I personally feel that posted signs shouldn't be able to dictate that but we all work within the rules that were unfortunately given to us. I'm not saying im right or wrong. I just think "Constitutional Carry" is thrown around alot and most of the laws are a far cry from that. - Do not confuse or misconstrue this either as me saying actual "CC" is the best idea ever either.

2. You took what I said and twisted it into a slight against a massive group of people and honestly I don't appreciate that. I never once insinuated that all "CC" carriers are lesser, unwashed, unskilled, untrained, or called them Plebs.
I simply stated valid concerns I had in regards to the law possibly encouraging people who may otherwise not have an interest in carrying responsibly and/or with good intention.

I never ever claimed the Texas LTC qualifications and course requisites were anything REMOTELY resembling good training. OR really any training. It's not. The shooting qualification was a joke and the 6 hour class is mostly explaining de-escalation methods, local law, and the criteria that needs to be met for justified use of deadly force. What I DID state was that the process to get your LTC to me, is a good indicator that someone who went through all the hassle is someone with good intentions and is someone more likely to seek further training. (As they should.)

As for citing actual instances? Unfortunately I've seen it, but no I cannot cite a police report or newspaper article, if thtat's what you are asking for. Downtown Austin and surrounding areas are pretty crime ridden and I see people carrying israeli style, no holster, idiots walking around just carrying it their hands (Saw this only once, thank god). One dude had the barrel in his front pocket and the grip just sticking out... lol. Now... does that scenario happen often? No, and thank god it doesn't. But it was a valid concern to me. That concern has lessened alot since the law went into effect initially though.

3. You are correct, what works for me or is ok to me may not be ok or work for you. After I gave them a picture, fingerprints, and even more information on myself, and paid them $200 for a tax stamp on my suppressor, Me worrying about being on a list went out the window.

Either way, It's all good brother. Love talking about this type of stuff.
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I understand completely brother and don't misconstrue my earlier response necessarily as a direct response to you. I don't think you believe people who won't renew their permits are lesser than you, it's just something I hear all the time from people who oppose permitless carry.

And having a bunch of NFA stuff registered with the feds might make the act of obtaining a carry permit a non starter for you, I can see that. Me myself, I don't have anything registered with the government and my plan is to keep it that way. I am not into suppressors or SBRs or anything that requires a tax stamp. And yeah, I know they can find out what I have. It's not like I hide it. I talk about it here all the time. But to do that they would probably have a reason as opposed to some computer geek at the ATF or FBI just trolling through a data bank looking for addresses or people to harass. As far as I'm concerned my name coming across their radar as infrequently as possible is preferable. It's enough that I go through the NICS every time I buy a gun. If they want to figure out exactly what gun it was let them work for it.
 
I still maintain my license in Tx because it allows me to carry in more places (in state) than CC. Example would be HEB a large grocery store chain (licensed I can conceal carry but unlicensed I can't) and this is true with many other businesses. Reciprocity is also a benefit when it comes to carrying in other states but I have been travelling armed since 1978 and would continue with that practice.
 
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