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Mich. PDs scramble to find rounds amid nationwide shortage

It seems that police departments across the country have been hit hard by the ammo shortage as have the rest of us:

https://www.police1.com/police-prod...ail&utm_term=0_ca044a84ea-1eb6ad0a87-81898876
I hope they can get it. As an aside, and I'm not talking crap about the police here, but I've been on the firing line with a number of cops. Their marksmanship hasn't been impressive with pistols or rifles. Hopefully they actually do put in the practice so they hit what they're aiming at and not me or mine with an errant shot.
 
Many new police recruits
I hope they can get it. As an aside, and I'm not talking crap about the police here, but I've been on the firing line with a number of cops. Their marksmanship hasn't been impressive with pistols or rifles. Hopefully they actually do put in the practice so they hit what they're aiming at and not me or mine with an errant shot.
Many new police recruits have little if any experience shooting a firearm.
 
Sounds sad.
Am guessing they're either looking for hand outs, not looking or looking in right places?
Have seen many places online where 9mm, especially 9mm is/was available. Usually pricey, but available.
Why drive when can have delivered for less than likely high fuel costs? And, who paid for that?
Caliber common sense? .40 Cal? Good luck on that? No 9mm HG's in reserve?
Besides, as it is, if ammo is available to average person it is to them as well?

 
I read an article about one city adding I think $100,000 or a little more to the budget this year to make up for the cost of ammo for the pd, both to carry and for practice and exercises. It is not a very big city either.
I also read awhile back, where this other town in another state was thinking they might have to cancel HS shooting. That really bothered me because I think it is good for kids to be educated and responsible with firearms.
 
I hope they can get it. As an aside, and I'm not talking crap about the police here, but I've been on the firing line with a number of cops. Their marksmanship hasn't been impressive with pistols or rifles. Hopefully they actually do put in the practice so they hit what they're aiming at and not me or mine with an errant shot.
I know a lot of cops. A great many of their co-workers shoot once a year at quals and that’s it.
 
I know a lot of cops. A great many of their co-workers shoot once a year at quals and that’s it.
I have 4 officer friends.. i can outshoot 3 of them.
They neither have the time, money or energy to shoot on a regular basis on their days off. Couple of them just see the pistol as their tool and have no passion towards it
 
I have 4 officer friends.. i can outshoot 3 of them.
They neither have the time, money or energy to shoot on a regular basis on their days off. Couple of them just see the pistol as their tool and have no passion towards it


I know I've told the story before so I won't bore everyone, but we used to let police departments qualify at a range I belonged to and me and my buddy regularly outshot most of them. I probably can outshoot most of the cops I know, but this doesn't apply to the ones I train with, most of whom are also ex military and who make me look like an idiot with a rock in my hand.
 
I too have out shot a few and even a few that are ex service. I am not trying to brag, but I am ok with a rifle though. I am not as good under 100 yards though. I have never owned a pistol that was worth a crap or very enjoyable to shoot either. I have out shot or done about the same as them with their own side arm though.
This is why I really want the rdp. I am hoping it makes me want to shoot at closer targets more.
Currently I would much rather shoot my carbine and will put 3 to 5 times as much ammo through it as my side arm. I think of the carbine as a bug out/ 50- 100 yarder but it is also a pretty slick little sweeper and I can move through the house pretty well with it. I have done a lot of work to it though. But it is not a edc and a good edc is where I am lacking and must be my next update.
As for the pd's shooting reloads, they may, but someone has to pay for all the materials at a minimum if it work related.
 
I hope they can get it. As an aside, and I'm not talking crap about the police here, but I've been on the firing line with a number of cops. Their marksmanship hasn't been impressive with pistols or rifles. Hopefully they actually do put in the practice so they hit what they're aiming at and not me or mine with an errant shot.
It may not be a training priority for this particular department, or simply a lack of time and resources.
 
I read many years ago that the overwhelming majority of police officers are not "gun folks" and view firearms as a necessary evil or tool of the trade.
The movie "Magnum Force" showed the gun guys on that force. There were not very many competing.
In some ways, I view most deer hunters in the same light as most police. They only use their hunting firearm once or twice a year and then only use a box of ammunition every year or so.
That explains why so many hunters seem so unfamiliar with the hunting rifles they may have been carrying to the stand for decades.

I also believe this phenomena explains why so many police shooting videos show the officer(s) firing half a box of ammo and only hitting the bad guy once or twice. (That and the advent of high capacity magazines that promote the "spray and pray" mentality.)
 
The ammo shortage is frustrating for everyone. Most agencies buy ammo from wholesalers, who I believe give LE some degree of priority. But some of the smaller agencies probably rely on the local gun store for small quantities.

There are about 17,000 law enforcement agencies, and around 800,000 officers in the U.S. The emphasis the agencies place on firearms training varies greatly, from very little to frequent, intensive training. Budgets and manpower drive training emphasis. The availability of suitable facilities is a key factor. The cost of ammunition is the least expensive element of police firearms training. You take officers off the street to go to firearms training, there is a gap in coverage, or you pay somebody overtime to fill the gap. Send the officer to training on his day off, you pay him overtime for training. If you staff your agency with sufficient personnel to build in training time so that it does not impact calls for service, it means additional officer positions. (This is one of the reasons de-funding police and reducing officer staffing is such a stupid idea-it means a reduction in training) In some departments even SWAT teams have difficulty finding training time. Most states have minimum annual qualification standards the officers must meet, and for some departments it is the only in service firearms training they will receive in a year. Others are far more aggressive about training-my department qualified four times a year, far above the state standard, and officers had a monthly training ammunition allotment. I believe strongly that the more competent the officer is with the firearm, the less likely it will be drawn and used inappropriately. I Have always found it frustrating that officers do not receive more firearms training but budgets and policy always win.

Some of the worst, and some of the very best shooters I have encountered were police officers. I had guys on my SWAT Team who consistently demonstrated extraordinary feats of marksmanship, and other, 20 year plus officers, who struggled mightily each year to meet minimum qualifications. Others are superb marksmen and a good number of competitive shooters are law enforcement officers.

As previously stated, not all officers are gun guys. It is predominantly a helping profession, not a combat profession. The truth is, most officers will complete a 25 year career and never fire a shot, and the firearm is well down on the list of tools they use in terms of frequency of use. Another factor to consider is what LE firearms instructors refer to as the "Rule of 3's". That is, the vast majority of law enforcement involved shootings occur at 3 yards or less, 3 or fewer rounds are fired, and it is over in 3 seconds. You don't need to be a bullseye shooter to deal with that.
 
The ammo shortage is frustrating for everyone. Most agencies buy ammo from wholesalers, who I believe give LE some degree of priority. But some of the smaller agencies probably rely on the local gun store for small quantities.

There are about 17,000 law enforcement agencies, and around 800,000 officers in the U.S. The emphasis the agencies place on firearms training varies greatly, from very little to frequent, intensive training. Budgets and manpower drive training emphasis. The availability of suitable facilities is a key factor. The cost of ammunition is the least expensive element of police firearms training. You take officers off the street to go to firearms training, there is a gap in coverage, or you pay somebody overtime to fill the gap. Send the officer to training on his day off, you pay him overtime for training. If you staff your agency with sufficient personnel to build in training time so that it does not impact calls for service, it means additional officer positions. (This is one of the reasons de-funding police and reducing officer staffing is such a stupid idea-it means a reduction in training) In some departments even SWAT teams have difficulty finding training time. Most states have minimum annual qualification standards the officers must meet, and for some departments it is the only in service firearms training they will receive in a year. Others are far more aggressive about training-my department qualified four times a year, far above the state standard, and officers had a monthly training ammunition allotment. I believe strongly that the more competent the officer is with the firearm, the less likely it will be drawn and used inappropriately. I Have always found it frustrating that officers do not receive more firearms training but budgets and policy always win.

Some of the worst, and some of the very best shooters I have encountered were police officers. I had guys on my SWAT Team who consistently demonstrated extraordinary feats of marksmanship, and other, 20 year plus officers, who struggled mightily each year to meet minimum qualifications. Others are superb marksmen and a good number of competitive shooters are law enforcement officers.

As previously stated, not all officers are gun guys. It is predominantly a helping profession, not a combat profession. The truth is, most officers will complete a 25 year career and never fire a shot, and the firearm is well down on the list of tools they use in terms of frequency of use. Another factor to consider is what LE firearms instructors refer to as the "Rule of 3's". That is, the vast majority of law enforcement involved shootings occur at 3 yards or less, 3 or fewer rounds are fired, and it is over in 3 seconds. You don't need to be a bullseye shooter to deal with that.


A good friend of mine is a police Captain in the city of St. Louis. He's 2 years away from retiring to a fishing cabin in The Ozarks. In his 35 + year career with the department he has never discharged his weapon while on duty. And that's in St. Louis.
 
The consumption of ammunition and range time is also politically driven in some locals.
Seattle or Portland probably have as little range requirement as is needed to keep the department legal. I'm betting cities like New York and Chicago are the same.

I would bet there are city councils who are happy their police can't practice as they think the time would be better spent in social work.
 
I know a former officer who has a whole bunch of guns, about once a year he will get them out and shoot them. Money is not an issue so I do not get it. But to each his own. I think most people shoot for "excitement" and for me it is relaxing. Some try and hit a little ball a long way in to a little hole and to me shooting is the exact same thing.
 
The consumption of ammunition and range time is also politically driven in some locals.
Seattle or Portland probably have as little range requirement as is needed to keep the department legal. I'm betting cities like New York and Chicago are the same.

I would bet there are city councils who are happy their police can't practice as they think the time would be better spent in social work.
Quite the opposite when it comes to new york actually. NYC actually has a remarkable training center that their officers are required to spend so many hours a quarter at. only reason i know this was a documentary I watch quite some time back on the subject of firearms trainings of police officers.
 
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