Oops, I snapped my rifle!

[Recusant]

Acorn, greetings from central Virginia and a warm welcome to the forum.

Being in Australia were you ever able see an Australian International Arms M-10 B2 Match Rifle in person. I would have liked to get to look at one, but I don't believe too many were ever imported into the U.S. Are they still in production at this time or did the company go under?

 

[Acorn]

Acorn, greetings from central Virginia and a warm welcome to the forum.

Being in Australia were you ever able see an Australian International Arms M-10 B2 Match Rifle in person. I would have liked to get to look at one, but I don't believe too many were ever imported into the U.S. Are they still in production at this time or did the company go under?

Hi Recusant,

I think they were a Brisbane based outfit up in Queensland. I believe they have been out of business now for about 10 years.

Whike not a match rifle, I saw one for sale on the SSAA gun sales platform:

Australian International Arms 308 Win

Rifle is in Very Good condition with a good bore - is rarely used now - oiled & maintained on regular basis. Monte-Carlo pistol grip stock in 98% condition albeit a couple of tiny storage marks on wood. Receiver and barrel in Excellent Condition with flip-up peep sight (100/300 yards) and 10...

ssaagunsales.com

 

[Recusant]

Hi Recusant,

I think they were a Brisbane based outfit up in Queensland. I believe they have been out of business now for about 10 years.

Whike not a match rifle, I saw one for sale on the SSAA gun sales platform:

Australian International Arms 308 Win

Rifle is in Very Good condition with a good bore - is rarely used now - oiled & maintained on regular basis. Monte-Carlo pistol grip stock in 98% condition albeit a couple of tiny storage marks on wood. Receiver and barrel in Excellent Condition with flip-up peep sight (100/300 yards) and 10...

ssaagunsales.com

As I can remember for some reason our gov't wouldn't allow them to be imported into the country, but I don't know what the reason was. I know some were imported into Canada, and it may be that several of those made their way into the US. One as nice as the one for sale in Australia would go for big bucks on Gun Broker. Years ago I did snag a nice Lithgow made No. 1 Mk III (SMLE). It had probably been refurbed after WWII or Korea. It looked like it was new.

 

[Acorn]

As I can remember for some reason our gov't wouldn't allow them to be imported into the country, but I don't know what the reason was. I know some were imported into Canada, and it may be that several of those made their way into the US. One as nice as the one for sale in Australia would go for big bucks on Gun Broker. Years ago I did snag a nice Lithgow made No. 1 Mk III (SMLE). It had probably been refurbed after WWII or Korea. It looked like it was new.

Hey, well done on snagging the Lithgow SMLE. I have one too. I bought mine direct from the government when I was in the Army in 1989. They were being sold for AUD$50 each and they came with a sword bayonet and bag.

I missed out on the first round of sales in 1988 but got a call in 1989 from a Major in Canberra asking me if I still wanted a rifle. I said “Heck yeah!”. After paying my $50 to the Reciever of Public Monies, I drove to an Army storage depot at Bandiana in Victoria.

The rifles were in war storage. I met an old bloke in Warehouse No 5 and he helped me pick out a nice one. The action of mine is Lithgow 1942 but the rifle was barrelled up and assembled at the feeder arsenal at Orange In 1943. Mine was unused when I got it along with a unused bayonet and an unused rifle bag dated 1915.

Check your .303 out, if it’s WWII era, any parts stamped OA are from Orange, parts stamped BA are from Bathurst and FA from Forbes. These were all feeder factories for Lithgow rifle and machine gun manufacture to spread out production.

 

[Recusant]

Hey, well done on snagging the Lithgow SMLE. I have one too. I bought mine direct from the government when I was in the Army in 1989. They were being sold for AUD$50 each and they came with a sword bayonet and bag.

I missed out on the first round of sales in 1988 but got a call in 1989 from a Major in Canberra asking me if I still wanted a rifle. I said “Heck yeah!”. After paying my $50 to the Reciever of Public Monies, I drove to an Army storage depot at Bandiana in Victoria.

The rifles were in war storage. I met an old bloke in Warehouse No 5 and he helped me pick out a nice one. The action of mine is Lithgow 1942 but the rifle was barrelled up and assembled at the feeder arsenal at Orange In 1943. Mine was unused when I got it along with a unused bayonet and an unused rifle bag dated 1915.

Check your .303 out, if it’s WWII era, any parts stamped OA are from Orange, parts stamped BA are from Bathurst and FA from Forbes. These were all feeder factories for Lithgow rifle and machine gun manufacture to spread out production.

I thought that pictures would tell you more than words. I do have a question as to the meaning of the other set of numbers stamped on the rear of the receiver (in the last picture). It is also stamped on the underside of the bolt handle.

 

[Acorn]

Wow Recusant,

You have one lovely SMLE there, congratulations! Great pics too.

That is a cracker of a rifle! An early war (1941) made action before we got into trouble with the Japanese. Looks like it was stocked up in 1942 with that date on the but. I reckon yours was assembled at Lithgow, before the feeder factories at Bathurst, Orange and Forbes were established. Check the rear sight protector, if it does not have OA on it, it’s Lithgow. Similar, check the front bayonet boss housing. If it does not have BA on it, it’s also Lithrow.

The front sight protectors have cutouts for the foresight zeroing tool. That is a later modification.
rifles that were refurbished at Lithgow have FTR (Factory Thorough Repair) stamped on them above the action serial number. Yours looks factory original.

The HV on the stock shows your rifle was zeroed for Mark VII ammunition. This marking was applied after the army transitioned from the early Mark VI ammo last used on the Gallipoli campaign in 1915. When the army moved to the Western Front in 1916, rifles were updated as Mark VII ammo was supplied.

The 1908 pattern sling looks like it might be a later issue sling as it looks green to me. Green slings were issued with the L1A1 SLR during the Vietnam period and after. It’s still a correct sling for a SMLE.

C18528 is the rifle‘s serial number. Bolts were serial numbed to the actions so it’s super to have a matching rifle. I’ll have to do some home work to identify the U3796 number. All Aussie actions have a number there but off the top of my head I don’t know it’s meaning.

The timber looks fabulous. Check for remanets of green paint or it’s removal from around the wrist of the stock. Rifles in war storage had a green painted band on them there.

Attached is a DMT 280 training chart for the SMLE. It’s 06:00am here so the light is awful for pics. I’ll try and take a better one and post it later today.

 

[Recusant]

Wow Recusant,

You have one lovely SMLE there, congratulations! Great pics too.

That is a cracker of a rifle! An early war (1941) made action before we got into trouble with the Japanese. Looks like it was stocked up in 1942 with that date on the but. I reckon yours was assembled at Lithgow, before the feeder factories at Bathurst, Orange and Forbes were established. Check the rear sight protector, if it does not have OA on it, it’s Lithgow. Similar, check the front bayonet boss housing. If it does not have BA on it, it’s also Lithrow.

The front sight protectors have cutouts for the foresight zeroing tool. That is a later modification.
rifles that were refurbished at Lithgow have FTR (Factory Thorough Repair) stamped on them above the action serial number. Yours looks factory original.

The HV on the stock shows your rifle was zeroed for Mark VII ammunition. This marking was applied after the army transitioned from the early Mark VI ammo last used on the Gallipoli campaign in 1915. When the army moved to the Western Front in 1916, rifles were updated as Mark VII ammo was supplied.

The 1908 pattern sling looks like it might be a later issue sling as it looks green to me. Green slings were issued with the L1A1 SLR during the Vietnam period and after. It’s still a correct sling for a SMLE.

C18528 is the rifle‘s serial number. Bolts were serial numbed to the actions so it’s super to have a matching rifle. I’ll have to do some home work to identify the U3796 number. All Aussie actions have a number there but off the top of my head I don’t know it’s meaning.

The timber looks fabulous. Check for remanets of green paint or it’s removal from around the wrist of the stock. Rifles in war storage had a green painted band on them there.

Attached is a DMT 280 training chart for the SMLE. It’s 06:00am here so the light is awful for pics. I’ll try and take a better one and post it later today.

Hey Acorn, thanks for posting all of this great information. From what you wrote it appears that it never went through the rebuild program after the war and is factory original. I bought this rifle in the spring of 1990 for $199.50 from a company called AMAC that imported these into the U.S. I had an FFL at that time and spent my weekends doing gun shows. I ordered 3 of these rifles. One of them was a 1920 issue with the neatest kangaroo stamped into stock, but unfortunately I didn't keep it. At the time these folks were not able to import any bayonets for reasons I can't remember. From what I've seen today I'd pay twice what the rifle cost for a WWII bayonet.

 

[TidalWave]

Wow Recusant,

You have one lovely SMLE there, congratulations! Great pics too.

That is a cracker of a rifle! An early war (1941) made action before we got into trouble with the Japanese. Looks like it was stocked up in 1942 with that date on the but. I reckon yours was assembled at Lithgow, before the feeder factories at Bathurst, Orange and Forbes were established. Check the rear sight protector, if it does not have OA on it, it’s Lithgow. Similar, check the front bayonet boss housing. If it does not have BA on it, it’s also Lithrow.

The front sight protectors have cutouts for the foresight zeroing tool. That is a later modification.
rifles that were refurbished at Lithgow have FTR (Factory Thorough Repair) stamped on them above the action serial number. Yours looks factory original.

The HV on the stock shows your rifle was zeroed for Mark VII ammunition. This marking was applied after the army transitioned from the early Mark VI ammo last used on the Gallipoli campaign in 1915. When the army moved to the Western Front in 1916, rifles were updated as Mark VII ammo was supplied.

The 1908 pattern sling looks like it might be a later issue sling as it looks green to me. Green slings were issued with the L1A1 SLR during the Vietnam period and after. It’s still a correct sling for a SMLE.

C18528 is the rifle‘s serial number. Bolts were serial numbed to the actions so it’s super to have a matching rifle. I’ll have to do some home work to identify the U3796 number. All Aussie actions have a number there but off the top of my head I don’t know it’s meaning.

The timber looks fabulous. Check for remanets of green paint or it’s removal from around the wrist of the stock. Rifles in war storage had a green painted band on them there.

Attached is a DMT 280 training chart for the SMLE. It’s 06:00am here so the light is awful for pics. I’ll try and take a better one and post it later today.

@Acorn : I’m not certain if the SMLE was there, but you surely know it was the Aussies that actually stopped the Japanese ‘runaway victory’ in WWII, right? It’s very poorly known by Americans but the Oz light infantry stalled the Jap South Seas detachments thrust down the Kokoda Track in Guinea. They got to within nighttime sight of Port Moresby’s lights. (They were ordered to turn back, in part due to America’s unintended diversion at Guadalcanal, but the Aussie pursuit back up the trail wore those troops to the point of uselessness…)
Oz took the mantle from the Japanese (known to be awesome on the fast march) as the world’s best light infantry, there. Somewhat oddly, neither the US nor Germany ever developed a really effective deliberate light infantry scheme; both leaned on mechanization.

Oz doesn’t often get credit for all it did in the Pacific…. so Cheers! to you !!!

 

[Acorn]

Hey Acorn, thanks for posting all of this great information. From what you wrote it appears that it never went through the rebuild program after the war and is factory original. I bought this rifle in the spring of 1990 for $199.50 from a company called AMAC that imported these into the U.S. I had an FFL at that time and spent my weekends doing gun shows. I ordered 3 of these rifles. One of them was a 1920 issue with the neatest kangaroo stamped into stock, but unfortunately I didn't keep it. At the time these folks were not able to import any bayonets for reasons I can't remember. From what I've seen today I'd pay twice what the rifle cost for a WWII bayonet.

That’s really interesting Recusant!

Sounds like you picked your rifles up just after they were sold off by the army.

I remember when I spoke to the army Major tasked with selling off the weapons, he told me the average price per firearm was $25. When I expressed my shock, he replied how little we got for our old 100+ Centurian Tanks!

These SMLEs were sold off to made room to place into storage to L1A1 SLR rifles as the army was transitioning to the Steyr AUG F88 rifle.

I wonder if your rifle had lived most of it’s time In Warehouse No5 at Bandiana like mine had.

Yes, nice .303 bayonets are getting dearer, even here in Oz.

Kind regards from down under

 

[BET7]

Speaking of Enfield, here's a video from Classic Firearms discussing a shipment of British Enfield #5 MK1 Jungle Carbines. Forget the $25 or even $199 prices. These shipments go fast, but they're currently in stock for $799.99 .

Video: British Enfield Jungle Carbine Surplus Unboxing

www.classicfirearms.com

 

[Acorn]

@Acorn : I’m not certain if the SMLE was there, but you surely know it was the Aussies that actually stopped the Japanese ‘runaway victory’ in WWII, right? It’s very poorly known by Americans but the Oz light infantry stalled the Jap South Seas detachments thrust down the Kokoda Track in Guinea. They got to within nighttime sight of Port Moresby’s lights. (They were ordered to turn back, in part due to America’s unintended diversion at Guadalcanal, but the Aussie pursuit back up the trail wore those troops to the point of uselessness…)
Oz took the mantle from the Japanese (known to be awesome on the fast march) as the world’s best light infantry, there. Somewhat oddly, neither the US nor Germany ever developed a really effective deliberate light infantry scheme; both leaned on mechanization.

Oz doesn’t often get credit for all it did in the Pacific…. so Cheers! to you !!!

Hi TidalWave,

I’m too young to have lived through it but I knew some old diggers who were there. Kokoda was a muddy, brutal bloodbath.

Early in the war, most of our troops (AIF - Australian Imperial Force) were still in the Middle East. They were brought back in 1942 for the defence of Oz. Before they got back the first infantry sendt North to Papua New Guinea (PNG) were Militia forces (Civilian Soldiers). 39 Battalion were our first to engage the Japs on Kokoda. They did a marvellous job slowing the Japs down.

About 25 years ago I was Secretary of a Melbourne based Military Rifle Club. We established a annual Veterans Trophy for our older shooters and named it after one of our club members, Mr Val Gardner.

Val Gardner was still an active shooter. Val was a young Lieutenant in the 2/14 Battalian AIF and fought in PNG.

He was wounded on Kokoda and evacuated by locally employed natives (called Fuzzy Wuzzy Angels by the diggers).

An Aussie Combat Cameraman named Damien Parer was filming the fighting at the time and later won an Academy Award for his film titled Kokoda Frontline.

A still from Kokoda Frontline (below) shows Val sitting on a stretcher with a durrie (cigarette) in his mouth. I got a large print of the photograph from the Australian War Memorial in Canberra to display in our club.

I’ll never forget sitting next to Val at a club meeting and asking him “Val, when you look at that photo, does it feel like yesterday or a lifetime ago?” Val total me that to him, it was as clear as yesterday. He proceeded to go around the photo and named every person in the picture. The only one I recall today is the man lighting Val’s durrie, a Salvation Army Major Morris Who set up a Comfort Stop on the Track.

Val also told me that most people don’t know it but there were two smokes in his mouth being lit at the time. After telling me he said, the fighting was bad, ... But not as bad as the diggers had it further North at Gona. He described Gona as an absolute bloodbath.

“They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
Lest we Forget”

Kind regards from Oz…

 

[Acorn]

Speaking of Enfield, here's a video from Classic Firearms discussing a shipment of British Enfield #5 MK1 Jungle Carbines. Forget the $25 or even $199 prices. These shipments go fast, but they're currently in stock for $799.99 .

Video: British Enfield Jungle Carbine Surplus Unboxing

www.classicfirearms.com

Wow BET7,

That’s amazing! Our £€¥$ are worth less and less! I guess that’s why those guys on Wall Street Bets are pushing people to invest in physical silver!

Check out a clipping below from an Aussie Newspaper dated Feb 24, 1986.

How would you like a surplus M1 Carbine for $239 or an M14 for $799?

Paid $125 for my Inland M1 Carbine in 1978 and $595 for my TRW M14 in 1987.

Both are now, saddly, long gone

 

[BET7]

Wow BET7,

That’s amazing! Our £€¥$ are worth less and less! I guess that’s why those guys on Wall Street Bets are pushing people to invest in physical silver!

Check out a clipping below from an Aussie Newspaper dated Feb 24, 1986.

How would you like a surplus M1 Carbine for $239 or an M14 for $799?

Paid $125 for my Inland M1 Carbine in 1978 and $595 for my TRW M14 in 1987.

Both are now, saddly, long gone

Man, I wish I was collecting back then. I spent over $1000 for my M1 Carbine and Over $900 for a beautiful Ariska (Unblemished Mum, with Airplane sights and mono pod). I don't even want to mention how much my M1 Garand cost. My Enfields, Mosin Nagants, 1903 Springfields, K98, and other Mausers were under 1K, but a lot more than back in the days of your ad there . I do have a M14 built by James River Armory off the original Army blueprints (without the select fire components). I paid about $1500 for that, but it's basically a new M1A, so comparable in price.

 

[Recusant]

It seems that you guys are just too young to remember the good old days! However, prices are relative to the price of everything else in the late 50's and early 60's. Notice that pre 1968 you could order direct and your purchase would be shipped directly to your house. Those days are gone forever.

 

[Acorn]

Yeah, up until 1971, Gold was US$35oz. What is it today? About US$1,850? It’s all relative

 

[Acorn]

It seems that you guys are just too young to remember the good old days! However, prices are relative to the price of everything else in the late 50's and early 60's. Notice that pre 1968 you could order direct and your purchase would be shipped directly to your house. Those days are gone forever.

View attachment 18422

Great ad there Recusant, thanks for sharing!

 

[BobM]

It seems that you guys are just too young to remember the good old days! However, prices are relative to the price of everything else in the late 50's and early 60's. Notice that pre 1968 you could order direct and your purchase would be shipped directly to your house. Those days are gone forever.

View attachment 18422

Other food for thought besides ouch???? ..... $35.00 in 1968 = $430.15 in 2021
"In the year 1968, the United States minimum wage was $1.60. This is equivalent to $12.29 in 2021 dollars."

1968 United States Minimum Wage in Today's Dollars

www.dollartimes.com

 

[Recusant]

Other food for thought besides ouch???? ..... $35.00 in 1968 = $430.15 in 2021
"In the year 1968, the United States minimum wage was $1.60. This is equivalent to $12.29 in 2021 dollars."

1968 United States Minimum Wage in Today's Dollars

www.dollartimes.com

I'd buy Luger's going for $430 all day long!

 

[TacticalPirate]

It seems that you guys are just too young to remember the good old days! However, prices are relative to the price of everything else in the late 50's and early 60's. Notice that pre 1968 you could order direct and your purchase would be shipped directly to your house. Those days are gone forever.

View attachment 18422

And look at Colt in the 1960s selling that dreaded black rifle "assault weapon" as a sporting gun...

 

[BobM]

And look at Colt in the 1960s selling that dreaded black rifle "assault weapon" as a sporting gun...
View attachment 18428

View attachment 18427

Thanks for posting, Love those old adds!
Assault rifles? It's sometimes amazing how times and perceptions change in society by attention seekers in media towards most anything? Hooded sweatshirts or hoodies are another prime example used by ignorant glory seekers at any cost to society.