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Permitted Carry holder engages active shooter.. then killed by police

KillerFord1977

KillerFord1977

SAINT
Founding Member
An unfortunate situation.

Permitted Carry holder engages active
shooter.
Active shooter kills an officer. Citizen steps in and kills the active shooter, picks up his AR-15, then is shot by the police in mistaken identify …

lessons in the situation for all parties involved and permitted carry holders around the country.

www.foxnews.com

Colorado good 'Samaritan' who killed gunman fatally shot by cop while holding suspect’s rifle, police say

The “good Samaritan” who fatally shot a gunman following an attack that left a Colorado police officer dead was himself killed by an officer responding to the chaotic scene, investigators said Friday.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
What an awful tragedy for everyone involved. We have seen off duty/plainclothes/undercover officers killed in a similar manner over the years. It is a training point. Officers responding to a shooting draw instant conclusions from what they see and hear. Perhaps the responding officer was too quick to shoot, perhaps he was reasonable with the information he had at that moment in time, we shall see what the investigation reveals. If you shoot somebody and don't have a badge to display, don't be holding a gun when the police arrive. At any rate, the officer who killed the Samaritan will relive it in his nightmares for the rest of his life.
 
It would be an instant conclusion for a LEO arriving on-scene. Seeing an officer and another "victim" on the ground and a person holding an AR by the bodies and no radio update from the scene the arriving officers are already out gunned by the AR so the biggest mistake was the good Samaritan picking up the purp's AR instead of holstering his own pistol and stepping away from the immediate scene.
 
OMG… what a tragedy. And a nightmare scenario.
Couple points:
We don’t know what happened, we only know what got reported. There may be other nuances or details that media didn’t realize the importance of.
Going by the basic story as reported, the thing went wrong upon the picking up of the AR. Perhaps a lesson in that; we’ll have to see.
My sympathies & prayers to the families & loved ones affected by this.
 
I think getting the ar away from the guy would be the natural instinct, however I think I would have had my side arm on him, dragged the ar away and then reholstered my side arm and stood there watching him.
I do not know how long after he shot him the officers showed up, but it obviously was after he had disarmed him.
It is sad and I am not dissing on anyone. But it does bring up the importance of classes to teach what to do after an incident. Because you 100% have to get that fire arm away from him. A wounded animal is a even more dangerous one.
 
First, this is just another example if how how a the militarization type training of police forces makes them WAY too likely to shoot first and ask questions later. Killing the people you are supposed to be “protecting and serving” is utterly unacceptable.

Second—this is why I’ve always said that in such a situation, I’m not going to engage unless it’s the last option; I’d sooner get the hell outta Dodge first. And if I did engage...when they’re down, I’m holstering and GTFO. I’ll call the police and notify them, of course...but I’m not gonna be on scene for when a bunch of trigger happy, jacked on adrenaline responders show up looking for a target.
 
HansGruber said:
First, this is just another example if how how a the militarization type training of police forces makes them WAY too likely to shoot first and ask questions later. Killing the people you are supposed to be “protecting and serving” is utterly unacceptable.

Second—this is why I’ve always said that in such a situation, I’m not going to engage unless it’s the last option; I’d sooner get the hell outta Dodge first. And if I did engage...when they’re down, I’m holstering and GTFO. I’ll call the police and notify them, of course...but I’m not gonna be on scene for when a bunch of trigger happy, jacked on adrenaline responders show up looking for a target.
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I agree with some of your points, but it's kind of hard to level the kind of adjectives you did at a cop who most likely showed up at the scene of a shooting, saw two men down and a guy in civilian clothes holding an AR-15. Obviously we don't know the whole story, but I'm inclined to blame Mr. Hurley. It seems to me that after the perp is down you could disarm him without standing around holding the gun. For one thing I have a disinclination about touching ANY gun that I don't know the history of or the person it belongs to with my bare hands.
 
Sad, very sad story. None of the words will bring back others harmed or the nightmares created by that incident.
Like most people, wasn't there, so can only speculate by news read and try to learn from situation. Hurley could've simply kicked AR away from shooter instead of picking up? Safer? But, if others are/were around to pick weapon up? Where's the normally considered safest place? xx xxxx hands? Damned if do or don't?

In retrospect? Carry/hold rifle muzzle down or by forearm grip if weapon's barrel's hot may help others later?

Thoughts? People usually tend to keep weapons out of anothers hands in many to most situations. Many peoples other usual response is to pick weapon up and is usually considered safer that way and out of anothers hands. With holstered weapons .... and rifles that are not usually holstered. (Who on earth carries a 2nd unloaded holster?) Many people more familiar with weapons tend to pick up, handle weapons in firing position too .... guessing good, or not so much sometimes?

Trigger happy, apprehensive people also tend to automatically respond 1st and rethink 2nd as well? Over glorified media effects often do not help many peoples thought patterns in that aspect either. Sometimes, many of us may just need more good response/situational training too?
 
this is just another example if how how a the militarization type training of police forces makes them WAY too likely to shoot first and ask questions later.
Click to expand...

The process by which the use of deadly force is qualified by LE personnel is very stringent.

Please give an example of what elements within their training that you feel "makes" them way too likely to shoot first and ask questions later.
 
I am not likely to involve myself in someone else's fight but in the event that I do, I will most certainly display a weapon for the least amount of time possible and then remove myself temporarily from the most obvious area that would be considered "the scene".

I wont speak to anything Mr. Hurley did or didnt do (because I do not know what he did), but if I were to become involved in a armed use of force, I am not going to attempt to maintain, secure or take custody of a badguys weapon or anything else. I know you see that stuff on tv but as a citizen, I have no desire or intent to get or remain that close to a downed badguy. The only way I would attempt to take a badguy weapon is when I am in a physical struggle and need to relieve him of it in order to prevent being harmed by it.
 
HansGruber said:
First, this is just another example if how how a the militarization type training of police forces makes them WAY too likely to shoot first and ask questions later. Killing the people you are supposed to be “protecting and serving” is utterly unacceptable.

Second—this is why I’ve always said that in such a situation, I’m not going to engage unless it’s the last option; I’d sooner get the hell outta Dodge first. And if I did engage...when they’re down, I’m holstering and GTFO. I’ll call the police and notify them, of course...but I’m not gonna be on scene for when a bunch of trigger happy, jacked on adrenaline responders show up looking for a target.
Click to expand...
Good points Han’s, agree
 
KASHIRA-3 said:
I am not going to attempt to maintain, secure or take custody of a badguys weapon or anything else.
Click to expand...
This was the second thing I thought of after his having some courage along with some tactical and marksmanship skills unless he got really lucky.

I'm not gonna be standing there holding the perp;s AR when the police roll up. I MIGHT secure it out of my hands if possible. Maybe. Would depend on a bunch of things.

Hopefully more details will emerge. This is a tragedy that somebody is able to lawfully pacify a threat like this and then get killed for doing so. I can't escape the initial sense that he didn't handle the aftermath wisely though.
 
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