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Pistol Red Dots: Are Iron Sights Better?

Was that article an advertisement for SA? Here are my thoughts for what they are worth. On this topic I do not think there is any right or wrong, everyone has the freedom to do as they wish and everyone should train as they carry. That said, for me it is 100% Optics. Like most folks here I shot Iron Sights since I was a child; in the past couple of years I have made the transition to Optics; slowly at first, then I went all in. Several reasons for this. One is that you need to train a lot, Optic shooting is not the same as Iron Sight shooting, I feel it is more accurate as well as faster, but that is only after training to do it properly exactly the same as we have done with Iron sights all these years. So I went all optics and train that way.

I have had zero issues with an optic concealing or drawing, probably a lot of that is the carry hardware as some CCW rigs are so deep you have to dig your gun out. Like some folks here I have a astigmatism in my in my strong arm eye but since Optic shooting is with both eyes open this no longer matters. Some folks here have expressed having issues with washout or "dot loss" in particular light or color backgrounds; for me personally as my evolution continues, I am moving to Green dots as I have experienced zero loss of reticle or dot no matter the environment.

As a bit of a nerd and tech lover I am excited with the Green innovations as well as the movement to shake awake and auto off functions. My latest one is the Holosun SCS MOS on my Gen 5 G20. I am not a huge Glock guy but for some reason I wanted this one for a while and here I am... Holosun made this SCS to fit directly on the cut, no plate needed, it has variable brightness and three options for dot/dot reticle/reticle. They claim it has 20000 hour battery life but it also recharges via the Solar window, so I just sit it on my desk one day a month to be make sure its gtg, I love this thing!

last note: even though I am an Optics junkie as it were, everything I carry is Co Witness, because why not CYA
 
Bassbob said:
Try it before you judge. Since this forum’s inception I have been one of the guy’s saying I wouldn’t put one on a carry gun. I put one on a VP9 a couple months ago and changed my mind.

No you don’t zero in on your sights. You zero in on your target. Which you will acquire dramatically faster with both eyes open and a dot in your peripheral.

Quality optics have impressive reliability. And if you co witness with your irons it’s a non issue anyway.

I’ll never buy another semi auto handgun that isn’t cut for an optic.
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You beat me to it! It was starting to sound like an echo chamber out there with everyone repeating the same thing, but most not even having an RDS. I am with you 100% as far as optics cut. RDS is as much of a fad as flat screen TVs and cell phones.

I do have an RDS on all of my carry guns and have experienced zero difference in draw time, but absolutely improved target acquisition time, by a lot. Concealment is also unchanged, the grip is usually what stands out anyway.

I'm not sure what to think of red dots don't show on red background, this is just impossible, one is a bright red light, the other one is cloth...
 
jonano said:
Ive seen at the range, magazines etc, there has been a huge proliferation of RD sights on handguns. I understand the "fun factor" in putting one on your gun, but why on earth would someone want to mount a large, obtrusive block on top of a gun used for concealed carry? Is it just a fad? Unless Im wrong, the whole idea of a CC weapon is to have as few things on it that could possibly get hung up on something or get in the way when drawn.
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I have never once had an optic on a pistol get "hung up" while drawing from concealment, and I've don't it thousands of times.

jonano said:
And doesnt proper training dictate that when aiming you zero in on your sights, not go looking for a bright little dot on what you are about to shoot?
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No. With proper training and putting a little time into learning a different sighting system, you don't "go looking" for the red dot at all. It simply appears in your peripheral vision, superimposed over the target.

jonano said:
That being said, Ive never used one and dont intend to get one. Im just curious as to what the allure is.
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With all due respect, it's obvious you've never used one based on your comments. The "allure" comes down to several things - 1) the ability to remain target focused the entire time, 2) not having to line up two little things on your pistol in order to aim, which is slower, 3) easier to see for aging eyes, 4) a solution for cross-eye dominance, 5) easier/quicker accuracy at distance.

There really is no situation in which iron sights are superior to a red dot, period. They work at close distances just as well as irons do (if not better) and they work better at distance. And with practice (just like one needed to do when first learning to shoot with irons), the red dot is faster.

A few additional myth busters:

"I'm not going to stake my life on something that is battery operated - what if the battery dies when I need it?" With modern pistol red dot sights that have a "shake awake" feature, I've had batteries easily last a year or more. If you're really worried about it, swap out the battery on your carry gun every six months just to be safe. And any carry gun should also have backup iron sights on it. This is really not a big deal.

"Red dots are only useful for distance shooting." Honestly, I don't know where this even comes from, except from people who haven't used red dots and don't know what they're talking about. Red dots work just as well at close distances as they do at longer distances - why wouldn't they?

"In a real self defense encounter, you're probably not going to be using your sights anyway, so there's no need for a red dot." This one always cracks me up, because it could also be an argument for not having any sights on your carry gun at all, yet no one says "you don't need iron sights." The fact is that "probablies" mean nothing - you have no idea what the situation is going to be. In any situation where sights don't matter, then sights don't matter, period. But in any situation where sights do matter, the RDS is going to be faster in practiced hands.
 
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Hammer67 said:
I have never once had an optic on a pistol get "hung up" while drawing from concealment, and I've don't it thousands of times.



No. With proper training and putting a little time into learning a different sighting system, you don't "go looking" for the red dot at all. It simply appears in your peripheral vision, superimposed over the target.



With all due respect, it's obvious you've never used one based on your comments. The "allure" comes down to several things - 1) the ability to remain target focused the entire time, 2) not having to line up two little things on your pistol in order to aim, which is slower, 3) easier to see for aging eyes, 4) a solution for cross-eye dominance, 5) easier/quicker accuracy at distance.

There really is no situation in which iron sights are superior to a red dot, period. They work at close distances just as well as irons do (if not better) and they work better at distance. And with practice (just like one needed to do when first learning to shoot with irons), the red dot is faster.

A few additional myth busters:

"I'm not going to stake my life on something that is battery operated - what if the battery dies when I need it?" With modern pistol red dot sights that have a "shake awake" feature, I've had batteries easily last a year or more. If you're really worried about it, swap out the battery on your carry gun every six months just to be safe. And any carry gun should also have backup iron sights on it. This is really not a big deal.

"Red dots are only useful for distance shooting." Honestly, I don't know where this even comes from, except from people who haven't used red dots and don't know what they're talking about. Red dots work just as well at close distances as they do at longer distances - why wouldn't they?

"In a real self defense encounter, you're probably not going to be using your sights anyway, so there's no need for a red dot." This one always cracks me up, because it could also be an argument for not having any sights on your carry gun at all, yet no one says "you don't need iron sights." The fact is that "probablies" mean nothing - you have no idea what the situation is going to be. In any situation where sights don't matter, then sights don't matter, period. But in any situation where sights do matter, the RDS is going to be faster in practiced hands.
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Very well said @Hammer67, excellent argument.
 
Hammer67 said:
I have never once had an optic on a pistol get "hung up" while drawing from concealment, and I've don't it thousands of times.



No. With proper training and putting a little time into learning a different sighting system, you don't "go looking" for the red dot at all. It simply appears in your peripheral vision, superimposed over the target.



With all due respect, it's obvious you've never used one based on your comments. The "allure" comes down to several things - 1) the ability to remain target focused the entire time, 2) not having to line up two little things on your pistol in order to aim, which is slower, 3) easier to see for aging eyes, 4) a solution for cross-eye dominance, 5) easier/quicker accuracy at distance.

There really is no situation in which iron sights are superior to a red dot, period. They work at close distances just as well as irons do (if not better) and they work better at distance. And with practice (just like one needed to do when first learning to shoot with irons), the red dot is faster.

A few additional myth busters:

"I'm not going to stake my life on something that is battery operated - what if the battery dies when I need it?" With modern pistol red dot sights that have a "shake awake" feature, I've had batteries easily last a year or more. If you're really worried about it, swap out the battery on your carry gun every six months just to be safe. And any carry gun should also have backup iron sights on it. This is really not a big deal.

"Red dots are only useful for distance shooting." Honestly, I don't know where this even comes from, except from people who haven't used red dots and don't know what they're talking about. Red dots work just as well at close distances as they do at longer distances - why wouldn't they?

"In a real self defense encounter, you're probably not going to be using your sights anyway, so there's no need for a red dot." This one always cracks me up, because it could also be an argument for not having any sights on your carry gun at all, yet no one says "you don't need iron sights." The fact is that "probablies" mean nothing - you have no idea what the situation is going to be. In any situation where sights don't matter, then sights don't matter, period. But in any situation where sights do matter, the RDS is going to be faster in practiced hands.
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What this dude said☝️
 
I run red dots on the vast majority of my pistols and I have a wide selection of most of the major red dots. I have never encountered any of the issues the naysayers trot out about them. No lint, I’ve never had a battery die on me because I change them on schedule, I live in TX so rain is not likely going to be a factor, never had one catch on clothing (including the Deltapoint Pro and SRO which are about the largest dot you can stick on a pistol) and I train like a madman and my dot shows up where I expect it, when I expect it. It’s worth mentioning that the latest dot I’ve add is a Holosun SCS green dot on my VP9. It seems almost too small when you look at it because it mounts direct to the slide, which also means it co-witnesses with the standard height sights. It doesn’t use a battery but is solar AND ambient light powered and if the charge drops low enough the dot blinks to let you know. Everyone has their own reasons for using or not using a red dot, but all of this nonsense pedaled by the uninitiated is exactly that - nonsense.
 
SimonRL said:
I run red dots on the vast majority of my pistols and I have a wide selection of most of the major red dots. I have never encountered any of the issues the naysayers trot out about them. No lint, I’ve never had a battery die on me because I change them on schedule, I live in TX so rain is not likely going to be a factor, never had one catch on clothing (including the Deltapoint Pro and SRO which are about the largest dot you can stick on a pistol) and I train like a madman and my dot shows up where I expect it, when I expect it. It’s worth mentioning that the latest dot I’ve add is a Holosun SCS green dot on my VP9. It seems almost too small when you look at it because it mounts direct to the slide, which also means it co-witnesses with the standard height sights. It doesn’t use a battery but is solar AND ambient light powered and if the charge drops low enough the dot blinks to let you know. Everyone has their own reasons for using or not using a red dot, but all of this nonsense pedaled by the uninitiated is exactly that - nonsense.
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Yep... that SCS green dot is now my fav overall of all the ones I have.
 
SimonRL said:
Holosun SCS green dot
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That SCS MP2's got my name on it, especially because the CORE adaptor plates are plastic junk :D
What a beauty!
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If I could actually use iron sights, I would gladly do so. I bad-mouthed batteries on guns in any form for many years! However, with my eyes now, it's simply not an option! I had new lenses installed the beginning of 2023 and my near vision has actually gotten worse. My distance vision is great now! But near? It was bad before but now if I walk into a small room, say the bathroom, I'm effectively blind until I get my reading glasses on! Hey, if you're knocking on the door of 72 and can still use irons, more power to you. That's just not in the cards for me! Not to mention I like the precision of the red dot sights so now that I've gotten used to using them, I probably wouldn't change even if I could!
Cheers,
crkckr
 
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