When I lived in the farm, the rule was to put down any stray without a collar to protect our livestock from attacks.
Pit Bulls
- Thread starter HayesGreener
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RickAnderson
Custom
Again, Nature and Nurture....
You can socialize and nurture a Great White Shark perfectly for it to be a secure and gentle animal, its still going to attack any prey it sees and tear it apart....
Correct me if I'm wrong, Siegfried and Roy had a reputation for treating their Tigers wonderfully, yet one show a Tiger decided to chomp down on Roy's throat....
Most dogs that are nurtured well, will be gentle animals that can be trusted....
But from what I have seen, the problem with Pit Bulls.....
Even those that are nurtured perfectly, still have a natural killer instinct that can come up....
I totally get the shame in all of this, there are plenty of wonderful, loving Pit Bulls that will go their entire life with never hurting anyone, that are maligned and not trusted because of a few owners or a few pit bulls but that is the facts....
Like I said before, a Friend of my Daughters, had a perfectly raised pit bull, a record of gentleness the entire dogs life, turned around a saw half of her baby in her dogs mouth, the other half on the other side of the room....
For me, even if its only a 0.1% chance the dogs bred traits might surface despite perfect nurturing, that a 100 times too high around children, IMO.
Bassbob
Emissary
I am not commenting too far on this thread anymore, as a lot of what is in this thread is BS. I only wanted to say that while I had a 90 lb Staffordshire and at the same time had a 60 pound, extremely intelligent Golden Retriever who regularly punked out my pitbull, leaving pits alone with other dogs or taking them around other strange dogs is a terrible idea. If you own a pitbull you have a responsibility to understand their inherent behavior and to keep them out of situations where they can get themselves into trouble. A dog postures to your pitbull, he's going to get aggressive, period. I place the blame for pitbull attacks squarely on the owners. Lack of education about the breed and your responsibility when owning one is not an excuse. It's pretty much like walking around with a loaded and cocked 1911 with the safety off. That is it's not a problem as long as you are 100% in control of the situation at all times.
This is absolutely not true. Dogs have genes just like humans. You wouldn't try to socialize a lion, they are wild animals. American Pitbull Terriers were bred for a specific reason. When they took the reason away the dogs are no longer the same breed. Almost all dogs that are called "pitbull" now are mutts. They are not the same as "pitbulls" from the past.
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RickAnderson
Custom
It's all BS?
I've heard it before, the woman with the baby said it was all BS, until her pit bull tore her baby apart. The woman in my neighborhood continued to insist it was all BS, that her Pit Bull was so gentle with her children, even after the Pit Bull was on its third biting of people and dogs, serious bites, she refused to believe it even happened, because in her mind it was BS what people say about the breed. I remain unconvinced by the its all BS declaration.
No not all Pit Bulls will bite or attack people, but its risk I'm not willing to take.
I've heard it before, the woman with the baby said it was all BS, until her pit bull tore her baby apart. The woman in my neighborhood continued to insist it was all BS, that her Pit Bull was so gentle with her children, even after the Pit Bull was on its third biting of people and dogs, serious bites, she refused to believe it even happened, because in her mind it was BS what people say about the breed. I remain unconvinced by the its all BS declaration.
No not all Pit Bulls will bite or attack people, but its risk I'm not willing to take.
Due to recent pit bull attacks and maulings resulting in death to other dogs and humans in our state, our city requires a million dollar insurance policy for all "violent" breeds.
I recently witnessed a pack of terriers kill everything running loose in our neighborhood, mostly rabbits. I notified law enforcement and described the situation complete with multiple blood trails across my yard and driveway. I am thankful that my neighbors were not outside walking their dogs at the same time. I did warn those I saw to remain inside until the police arrived.
I recently witnessed a pack of terriers kill everything running loose in our neighborhood, mostly rabbits. I notified law enforcement and described the situation complete with multiple blood trails across my yard and driveway. I am thankful that my neighbors were not outside walking their dogs at the same time. I did warn those I saw to remain inside until the police arrived.
Pitdogg2
Professional
True words! If you could research 6 generations of breeding on many APBT's you would find many many inbred "features". In other words I agree completely!
A good friend came by and I started show my breeding records and books with pictures of older dogs from years ago. He was amazed at how many of the pictures of the dogs from the 50, 60, 70 and 80's were in my breeding records (put face to name in a way). You take APBT'S from the mid 90's-2000's those are scatter bred dogs, brother, sisters, mom, son, dad, daughter they are a mess. Say what you want the old guys who matched dogs kept meticulous breeding records and meticulous game match records. There was a good reason for this and it showed in the breed standard. Think about it for a moment, did you hear of any pit bulls attacking babies and kids and brothers and sisters and all that crap in the 70s?
No! No you didn't. Ask yourself a question why is that? Is it modern media? The answer is NO it is not. I'll restate what I said previously a few pages back the old timers did not breed dogs that showed people aggression. The old timers kept meticulous records of their breeding. These dogs got in the hands of the wrong people who the old timers would never have sold a dog too. These same people bred all these dogs so scatter bred now you've got problems.
You got breeders out there trying to breed 200 lb American pitbull terriers, they were never ever meant to be that big. To get a dog that big means you got to do all kinds of breed manipulation what do you end up with? You end up with a problem.
Now many of you may not like what I have to say and that's okay that's your prerogative.
I've lived with this breed I've bred this breed I have records of my breeding and like I said they go back 6 to 12 generations per dog. If I need to I can go further back. My dogs are tightly bred and bred for specific traits to be a positive for the breed.
My dogs make THE WORST house defense dog. You want a great house defense dog there are many many breeds that are much better at that. That is not what these dogs were ever bred for!
Keystone19250
SAINT
To a point you are correct however some mixed breeds are just wacko and require constant attention and monitoring.
Keystone19250
SAINT
You can not draw parallels between domestic animals and wild animals whether the wild animal has been in captivity for an extended time or not,
Wild animals are just that, wild. Their natural instincts are never bred or pampered out.
RickAnderson
Custom
My experience, mixed breeds more often are more stable and healthier than pure breed, they seem to get the best traits of both breeds and less of the negative health liabilities of the pure breeds. But I'm sure there are exceptions were some mixed breeds get the all the worst traits....
I'm sure the puppy mills and some of the irresponsible actions might factor into experience Pure Breds with problems...
What makes an animal, domestic or wild?
The nurturing of the environment they were raised?
Or generations of breeding to adapt their natural traits to the domestic environment?
That was my point, its Nature vs Nurture and/or combination of Nature and Nurture.
Nature sometimes overcomes the best Nurturing and Nurturing sometimes overcomes the strongest Natural traits...
How do explain, people raised in the worst crime ridden environments in poverty become world leading Neurosurgeons and Leaders, and Violent Psychopaths raised in the most loving families with every advantage given to them?
Or we going to go down the path, you can't compare anything with dogs, its all Nurture with Pit Bulls? Don't mention the history of the breeding that makes up their Nature?
kenpomaniac1958
Master Class
I agree that bad owners create bad dogs. There are quite a few stray dogs in South Texas. I'm 64 and usually carry a cane when I go for walks. I also carry a concealed 38 special snub nosed revolver loaded with 2 rounds of snake shot and 3 rounds of hollow points.
So far I haven't had any issues, but I have heard of some people down here getting attacked by stray dogs, especially out in the country.
When I lived in rural Arkansas that 38 special snubby with snake shot, killed a few aggressive poisonous snakes. I encountered a few aggressive dogs also, but on every occasion it was only 1 or 2 dogs and I was able to get them to back off, but I'm glad I had that 38 special snubby just in case.
Somebody in our small town had a pack of 10 dogs who attacked and killed a guy last week. He was just walking home. I have had a pit bull attack our Belgian Malinois while I was walking her. The owner, his sister and I were finally able to get him off her. The Pti Bull (later) chased the neighbor’s dog (Lab) into her house. The Pit tore up the neighbor’s hand pretty good. The police put the dog down after that. I hear what folks are saying about not blaming the dog, but most attacks around here are from Pit like dogs. I don’t care for Pit Bulls.
Belt Fed
Ronin
Well i tried to inject a little humor to quell the feud of bad dog or bad owners quarrel. it didn't work. lol
Now my two mags worth, Bad owners do indeed make bad dogs but the pit bull has a mind of it's own in most instances. now i will say not every pit bull is a threat, but IMO most are. Had too many LE tell me of pit bull horror stories. i've had a couple.
Many years ago we had had a family that rented a house next to us, now i hate to make fun of people but this whole family must have been inbreds cause they were all full blown morons. i could tell some stories but this one is about the dogs they owned.
This house had a huge fenced in back yard but these idiots would let these two pit bulls out in the front yard to terrorize the neighborhood. I called the cops on them twice cause the dogs were over here trying to get me and my wife. Other neighbors called the cops on them too. they would just go talk to them, i told the offeicer the last time, just going to let you know, if that dog bites my wife or me, i am going to shoot more than just that damned dog. i did clean that up a bit too.
I said you tell them that and he told me to shoot the dog if it came back over here. I said not a problem but i shouldn't have to carry a gun on my own property cause someone is too ignorant to let the dogs out in a fenced yard instead out where they can roam.
The last instance before they moved was the final straw, they let one out and it was tearing the neighbors fence down behind them trying to get at their animals. the old woman was scared and called me to please tell them. i said maam, i'm fixin to kill that thing.
I am also going to clean this up as i contained some bad words. but anyway i grabbed my gun and went back to my back fence and sure enough it was about to get through her fence. I was just fixin to pull the trigger and i heard this idiot woman, i actually think she was a crack addict screaming please don't kill my dog. I said a few choice words and said you better jump that fence a get the SOB or he is dead. about that time her idiot husband that was to sorry to work came out and said something smart. i said you wanna repeat that bud. he seen i was not playing. and he shut up and let her get the dog. i told both of them i was going to kill both of them pits next time i seen them, no question ask, they are going to die. About a week later they moved, saved me from going to prison cause i had enough. i don't tolerate stupidity on such a high level well.
If i told some of the stupid stuff they done it would need it's own thread. it was amazing. these idiots had two kids and the apple didn't fall far from the tree cause they was full blown morons too. .
Now my two mags worth, Bad owners do indeed make bad dogs but the pit bull has a mind of it's own in most instances. now i will say not every pit bull is a threat, but IMO most are. Had too many LE tell me of pit bull horror stories. i've had a couple.
Many years ago we had had a family that rented a house next to us, now i hate to make fun of people but this whole family must have been inbreds cause they were all full blown morons. i could tell some stories but this one is about the dogs they owned.
This house had a huge fenced in back yard but these idiots would let these two pit bulls out in the front yard to terrorize the neighborhood. I called the cops on them twice cause the dogs were over here trying to get me and my wife. Other neighbors called the cops on them too. they would just go talk to them, i told the offeicer the last time, just going to let you know, if that dog bites my wife or me, i am going to shoot more than just that damned dog. i did clean that up a bit too.
I said you tell them that and he told me to shoot the dog if it came back over here. I said not a problem but i shouldn't have to carry a gun on my own property cause someone is too ignorant to let the dogs out in a fenced yard instead out where they can roam.
The last instance before they moved was the final straw, they let one out and it was tearing the neighbors fence down behind them trying to get at their animals. the old woman was scared and called me to please tell them. i said maam, i'm fixin to kill that thing.
I am also going to clean this up as i contained some bad words. but anyway i grabbed my gun and went back to my back fence and sure enough it was about to get through her fence. I was just fixin to pull the trigger and i heard this idiot woman, i actually think she was a crack addict screaming please don't kill my dog. I said a few choice words and said you better jump that fence a get the SOB or he is dead. about that time her idiot husband that was to sorry to work came out and said something smart. i said you wanna repeat that bud. he seen i was not playing. and he shut up and let her get the dog. i told both of them i was going to kill both of them pits next time i seen them, no question ask, they are going to die. About a week later they moved, saved me from going to prison cause i had enough. i don't tolerate stupidity on such a high level well.
If i told some of the stupid stuff they done it would need it's own thread. it was amazing. these idiots had two kids and the apple didn't fall far from the tree cause they was full blown morons too. .
Keystone19250
SAINT
Pure bred domestic dogs/cats have health issues from years of inbreeding, mix breeds don’t have a high percentage of health issues but mental and emotional problems still exist and some are severe.
Domar1291
Master Class
My scary black rifle won't go attack anyone or thing without me behind it.
I get your point just not a good analogy
Keystone19250
SAINT
Exactly, the rationale person can not live in denial over a violent aggressive dog because it only in most cases ends in a tragedy. The term junk yard dog was given for a reason as they are not fit to be household pets.
It is a proven fact that dogs that maul babies do so after the baby has been fed and smells of food, dogs are always hungry, sad but true.