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Polymer80 and ‘ghost guns’

"Ghost guns" as I understand are not identified as any/all guns with no serial number, nor are they regularly identified as '3D printed guns, but are most often the 80%'rs. In most cases of some anti2nd law enforcement/politician speak, ghost guns are typically the 80% "gun kits" as they call them. There are very, very few 3D printed guns ever even mentioned or considered because so few are ever identified as having been used in crime, or worth taking the chance on. I think Cody Wilson has pretty much proven that up till now, whereas the 80%'rs are being seen and used more and more. The third example is a gun with the serial number having been ground off or otherwise removed from a manufactured firearm.

Now, what many folks don't know or understand is that we as American citizens can still make/build our own firearm for our own use at home and it requires no serial number in most cases ..... unless and until we decide to transfer it to someone else. Basically that's been the law since the before the country was even founded. And the other bigger example of firearms with no serial numbers are the millions and millions of firearms manufactured prior to the GCA of 1968. That's right, few manufactured guns were serialized up until then. That's when it was first required by law. We all know of many, many guns still in use today built prior to 1968 and few if any of them will display a serial number.

One last thought here ...... I'm not real certain that in just the last year or two there might not have been a state or two passed laws restricting the 'home made' firearms and now requiring them to be serialized in some fashion. But in general when you hear the term 'ghost gun' on TV news, they're speaking of what they consider a 'gun kit' (80%'rs), according to the anti's as easily available to any of the bad guys over the I-net with just a key click or phone call. And sadly for all us good guys, they are showing up more and more at mass shootings and other crime scenes.

And it seems those who are inclined to sell guns to those not allowed to have them, or more criminally to sell modified guns to anyone with the cash, are going more and more to the 80% "gun kits" making it harder to trace it back to them.
 
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Care to elaborate ?
Be glad to; my opinion is a gun, plastic “untraceable gun” created by a 3D printer controlled by a computer is totally unnecessary whether it has a serial number or not. I’m sure there are individuals that will say or use the term “this is my god given 2A rights”
I say this, allowing this type of weapon to be made is hurtful to our fight at protecting our 2A rights and will just be used against law abiding citizens.
 
Be glad to; my opinion is a gun, plastic “untraceable gun” created by a 3D printer controlled by a computer is totally unnecessary whether it has a serial number or not. I’m sure there are individuals that will say or use the term “this is my god given 2A rights”
I say this, allowing this type of weapon to be made is hurtful to our fight at protecting our 2A rights and will just be used against law abiding citizens.
Are you also opposed to 80% lowers ? Is it your opinion that all guns should be “ Traceable” by law enforcement ?
 
Be glad to; my opinion is a gun, plastic “untraceable gun” created by a 3D printer controlled by a computer is totally unnecessary whether it has a serial number or not. I’m sure there are individuals that will say or use the term “this is my god given 2A rights”
I say this, allowing this type of weapon to be made is hurtful to our fight at protecting our 2A rights and will just be used against law abiding citizens.
to me, some of that is correct. the law makers seem hell bent on destroying our 2A rights, all the while not even making laws to punish the criminals, but instead giving them home confinement, or "time served", or suspended sentences, or free on bail, or personal recognizance.

then what do i read so many times??

those let off with a "get out of jail card", to be arrested again for assaults, or murders.

but, "let's punish the law abiding, respectful, responsible gun owners, cuz thier guns and large magazine capacities, and assault type rifles, are creating havoc in the streets".
 
Are you also opposed to 80% lowers ? Is it your opinion that all guns should be “ Traceable” by law enforcement ?
As I mentioned in a previous post no I’m not, these are guns that are built by conventional parts and there by customizable to the desire of the builders, they are true firearms made by the assembly of parts made the conventional way missing only serialization.
 
As I mentioned in a previous post no I’m not, these are guns that are built by conventional parts and there by customizable to the desire of the builders, they are true firearms made by the assembly of parts made the conventional way missing only serialization.
I’m just trying to understand what it is you are opposed to brother. I don’t really know how many people are actually making gun parts on 3D printers, but if it so happened that I had the machinery and engineer/ design skill to build a gun from scratch I see no reason why I shouldn’t be free to do so. I don’t think popular firearms manufacturers have a monopoly on gun building.
 
In all actuality the 3D printing process is nothing more than another technology for making the non critical pieces of a firearm, much like the process of big manufacturers using polymer today, or a good machinist with proper equipment in his home shop actually milling a steel or other material lower for his home built. And all legal.

Far more often than not they are less than ideal and typically not real dependable, therefore the bad guys don't often bother with the process themselves, but will occasionally buy one from another bad guy just like they do with the 80%'rs. So the fact is the 3D printed pieces and the 80% pieces are pretty much 'tit for tat' in the home made and/or the non-serialized gun world.

On a personal note, being the hard headed, old school, country codger that I am, it took me many years to warm up to the 'plastic' (polymer) guns of the last few years, but I finally did. I even remember when it was such a new technology that the anti's were claiming "these new 'plastic' guns can slip right through airport metal detectors", etc, etc, which we all know to be bunk. I can see many advantages in them now and few disadvantages.

However from what I know relative to the 3D printed versions, it requires a pretty sophisticated and high dollar machine to make parts that are relatively reliable. The typical personal home printer is really not the type of machine to use if you're trying to make parts to depend on. It's just the next step in a home builder's available technology.

Over many years we've gone from hand carved stocks and Damascus barrels, to 80% finished pieces (gun kits if you will) available to the home made gun builder thanks to our 2nd amendment and the rights it preserves and protects.

And now I'm curious ...... is there anyone here on the forum that has made and used any 3D printed gun part? I'd like to know more about it if so.
 
I want to clarify some confusion. The second amendment, the Constitution or the Bill of Rights don't give ANYONE a d**ned thing. They are inherit. We have them because we exist. They are natural rights. A bird has as much right to attack intruders into her nest as an ant does defending the colony and as you, me, or Billy Bob down the road have to defend what is ours.

That's important to understand. Any rights granted by govt are not rights; they are privileges. These wonderful rights enshrined and PROTECTED by the constitution are NOT granted by the same.
 
I read the responses here, and then reread them. It seems most folks are on the same page. Other folks are kinda, well, "you don't need this or that." I find that collectively, we are as bad as those we moan about. Short memories. Uninformed. Ignorant of our history.
I don't think we should give up one millimeter in their war against our rights. We compromise, we are accommodating by nature. They keep pushing us to meet them in "the middle" find some common ground. Simple mathematics says we are losing. If you start at 100% and meet in the middle, you've just sacrificed half. HALF! Let that sink in. What was it the other side conceded? Nothing. NOT A GOD**** THING. They never lose an inch. They are encroaching on our rights. So how many times can you afford to sacrifice 50% of your rights before you're left with nothing. Every time we lose, it truly is an exponential loss. That's why I don't think we should concede any more. I don't care if it's something I don't or won't use. If it's silly or stupid or ridiculous. We all have to band together. The Fudds, the weekend warriors the tactifools and the tacticools, the shopkeep, the farmers and mechanics. We have got to fight for a common goal and that is not to lose one more millimeter of ground in our 2A battle. This country is deeply divided, we as gun owners need to put aside our petty differences and stick together in solidarity against the tyrannical left.
 
I read the responses here, and then reread them. It seems most folks are on the same page. Other folks are kinda, well, "you don't need this or that." I find that collectively, we are as bad as those we moan about. Short memories. Uninformed. Ignorant of our history.
I don't think we should give up one millimeter in their war against our rights. We compromise, we are accommodating by nature. They keep pushing us to meet them in "the middle" find some common ground. Simple mathematics says we are losing. If you start at 100% and meet in the middle, you've just sacrificed half. HALF! Let that sink in. What was it the other side conceded? Nothing. NOT A GOD**** THING. They never lose an inch. They are encroaching on our rights. So how many times can you afford to sacrifice 50% of your rights before you're left with nothing. Every time we lose, it truly is an exponential loss. That's why I don't think we should concede any more. I don't care if it's something I don't or won't use. If it's silly or stupid or ridiculous. We all have to band together. The Fudds, the weekend warriors the tactifools and the tacticools, the shopkeep, the farmers and mechanics. We have got to fight for a common goal and that is not to lose one more millimeter of ground in our 2A battle. This country is deeply divided, we as gun owners need to put aside our petty differences and stick together in solidarity against the tyrannical left.
If we were to meet in the middle, then they should also? Should we remove the right of women's and minority to vote? You want lol cap mags, then you give something up! How far do you think they'll like that or will it go!
 
If we were to meet in the middle, then they should also? Should we remove the right of women's and minority to vote? You want lol cap mags, then you give something up! How far do you think they'll like that or will it go!
That's my point, they never give up anything. They wring their hands and cry . They paint us as unreasonable since we are unwilling to give up. When it comes to our right to self-preservation, all we've ever done is give up ground. Can't mail order guns, gotta go through FFL. They don't want us to "build or manufacture our own " Guns have to fit a certain profile. Can't have this and that, cuz that's a felony, but this is legal and that is legal, just nit together. Can't have a suppressor, that's controlled. Simple and relatively inexpensive device that could prolong people's hearing. No, you can't be trusted, you'll do evil. Can't have a machinegun made after this date, cuz, well, you know, the new ones are deadlier. What , in all of this bickering (negotiating) has the left ever conceded? Nothing. But don't you dare "infringe" on their rights. No sir! Oh yeah. That's misogynistic, can't say sir, ma'am, young man or lady. You might offend. On top of all this , we know have a supreme court justice who can't define man or woman. The people whom we have to rely on to "interpret " our laws, as written, cannot define man or woman. Brothers and sisters, we are on the edge from which there is no turning back. If you run out of things to give up, what do you have left?

I want to thank any who read this rant all the way through. I hope it will spark something inside you to make your line in the sand. We all must hang together, you all know the rest. (You should)
 
As for my gender I'll accept sir, man, dude, bro, mr., gringo and even "cracker" (makes me laugh). At least it is and can be manly! For those who 5hink their children can have a sex change are idiots among other things! It's not about religion, just right and wrong! Do you want a person (let's say a male) get a sex change, go into a public restroom that your daughter (minor or not) and have that chance of doing something unimaginable with them! Enough can happen to our children why give another way and/or reason to make it easier!
 
I read the responses here, and then reread them. It seems most folks are on the same page. Other folks are kinda, well, "you don't need this or that." I find that collectively, we are as bad as those we moan about. Short memories. Uninformed. Ignorant of our history.
I don't think we should give up one millimeter in their war against our rights. We compromise, we are accommodating by nature. They keep pushing us to meet them in "the middle" find some common ground. Simple mathematics says we are losing. If you start at 100% and meet in the middle, you've just sacrificed half. HALF! Let that sink in. What was it the other side conceded? Nothing. NOT A GOD**** THING. They never lose an inch. They are encroaching on our rights. So how many times can you afford to sacrifice 50% of your rights before you're left with nothing. Every time we lose, it truly is an exponential loss. That's why I don't think we should concede any more. I don't care if it's something I don't or won't use. If it's silly or stupid or ridiculous. We all have to band together. The Fudds, the weekend warriors the tactifools and the tacticools, the shopkeep, the farmers and mechanics. We have got to fight for a common goal and that is not to lose one more millimeter of ground in our 2A battle. This country is deeply divided, we as gun owners need to put aside our petty differences and stick together in solidarity against the tyrannical left.
Something like 30,000 laws on the state and federal level. We've lost more than protected
 
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