testtest

Poor manufacturing or poor quality control?

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

RBWhit125

Alpha
I currently own an M1A and an XD pistol and I have problems with both of them. I always thought that Springfield Armory was the definition of quality arms. That has proven to be untrue. The M1A has some machining problems which prevent it from being properly disassembled. Their is not enough clearance built into the weapon to allow the operating rod to reach the circular cutout so that it can be removed.

The XD is a .45 caliber that has chambering problems that appear to be with the magazine. If I load the 6 or 7 round mag to capacity, then the first round will not chamber. I consider this to be a showstopper for my concealed carry pistol as sometimes this will happen mid-stack while firing the weapon.

Is anyone else encountering these problems with the arms. I've emailed the factory about the problems with my M1A but haven't gotten a response.
 
RBWhit125 said:
I currently own an M1A and an XD pistol and I have problems with both of them. I always thought that Springfield Armory was the definition of quality arms. That has proven to be untrue. The M1A has some machining problems which prevent it from being properly disassembled. Their is not enough clearance built into the weapon to allow the operating rod to reach the circular cutout so that it can be removed.

The XD is a .45 caliber that has chambering problems that appear to be with the magazine. If I load the 6 or 7 round mag to capacity, then the first round will not chamber. I consider this to be a showstopper for my concealed carry pistol as sometimes this will happen mid-stack while firing the weapon.

Is anyone else encountering these problems with the arms. I've emailed the factory about the problems with my M1A but haven't gotten a response.
Click to expand...
Both. And if they do not address it then poor customer service as well.
 
RBWhit125 said:
I currently own an M1A and an XD pistol and I have problems with both of them. I always thought that Springfield Armory was the definition of quality arms. That has proven to be untrue. The M1A has some machining problems which prevent it from being properly disassembled. Their is not enough clearance built into the weapon to allow the operating rod to reach the circular cutout so that it can be removed.

The XD is a .45 caliber that has chambering problems that appear to be with the magazine. If I load the 6 or 7 round mag to capacity, then the first round will not chamber. I consider this to be a showstopper for my concealed carry pistol as sometimes this will happen mid-stack while firing the weapon.

Is anyone else encountering these problems with the arms. I've emailed the factory about the problems with my M1A but haven't gotten a response.
Click to expand...
Having been issued an M14 for drill and ceremony use in the military, and now owning an M1A, I can say that removing the operating rod has always been a little difficult. It is more by design than due to bad quality. I haven't seen your weapon but I would be very surprised if the op rod doesn't travel far enough to get to the cutout. I would be surprised that it would fire given that kind of defect. Have you tried using a small tack hammer and screwdriver to get the appropriate torque required to rotate the rod out? Sorry if I am making an assumption, just thought I'd throw that out there. Can't speak to the XD-M. I have had a great experience with my M1A and Saint rifles.
 
Well if it went together…..it should come apart. That design can be tricky and you have to hit the sweet spot.

The XD, what ammo? Does it do the same malfunction with both mags. You say it wont load the first round, are you riding the slide? Are you locking the slide back then sling shooting or maybe the slide release? The “mid stack“ problem, are you sure you are not hitting it with your thumb? it just sounds like you are having some really bad luck maybe posting some pictures will help us, help you better.

The best thing is to call customer service not e-mail. Springfield has manned phones waiting to help.

Plenty of knowledgeable members here can also help you, if you can back up and methodically tell us what exactly is happening, how you are doing it, and with what you are doing it with. Give us some back ground on your experience with these firearms. Are they new, used. Did they work at one time and now all of the sudden stop Etc.
 
Last edited:
i cannot address your particular troubles. i DO have at the very least 5 S/A semi-automatics. 4 are 1911's, and one is the Hellcat. none of mine exhibit any problems, as far as fit, function or finish.

i have had issues contacting S/A in the past, but i do believe that they had some sort of server problem.

i can address your ill feelings about S/A and tell you that if S/A were a lousy company?

I'd not have as many guns built by them, or as in the Hellcat, (which is made in the country of Croatia) sold by them.
 
xdman said:
Well if it went together…..it should come apart. That design can be tricky and you have to hit the sweet spot.

The XD, what ammo? Does it do the same malfunction with both mags. You say it wont load the first round, are you riding the slide? Are you locking the slide back then sling shooting or maybe the slide release? The “mid stack“ problem, are you sure you are not hitting it with your thumb? it just sounds like you are having some really bad luck maybe posting some pictures will help us, help you better.

The best thing is to call customer service not e-mail. Springfield has manned phones waiting to help.

Plenty of knowledgeable members here can also help you, if you can back up and methodically tell us what exactly is happening, how you are doing it, and with what you are doing it with. Give us some back ground on your experience with these firearms. Are they new, used. Did they work at one time and now all of the sudden stop Etc.
Click to expand...
My M1A has been difficult to disassemble/assemble since I purchased it new 4 years ago. It appears to me that an accumulation of machining tolerances has left it about a 1/16th of an inch to far forward for the rod to hit the 'sweet spot' of the cutout. I have metal on metal contact that blocks the rod from the cutout in the rear position. I used many M14's in the army and have never encountered this degree of difficulty in disassembling them for cleaning. Very aggravating.
I don't assume that the weapon was assembled, disassembled, then reassembled at the factory because if it had been a competent armorer would have polished or realigned the action to eliminate this problem. However, I do believe that it was slapped together then shipped out.

The XD has similar feed problems with both sizes of magazines. I am shooting 230gr. copper round nose and 185gr. JHP The slide does not hang up on the rounds but it does slip right over them without feeding the first one into the chamber. It does it if I ride the slide forward or release the slide with the slide lock. I have found that I can overcome this by pulling up on the nose of the first round before loading it the weapon when it is locked open. Most times the following rounds will feed properly but sometimes it will cycle without chambering a round midway through the mag. This doesn't increase my confidence that the weapon will operate properly when its really needed. Murphey's Law rules! There's something off about the feed angle from the mags.....
 
RBWhit125 said:
My M1A has been difficult to disassemble/assemble since I purchased it new 4 years ago. It appears to me that an accumulation of machining tolerances has left it about a 1/16th of an inch to far forward for the rod to hit the 'sweet spot' of the cutout. I have metal on metal contact that blocks the rod from the cutout in the rear position. I used many M14's in the army and have never encountered this degree of difficulty in disassembling them for cleaning. Very aggravating.
I don't assume that the weapon was assembled, disassembled, then reassembled at the factory because if it had been a competent armorer would have polished or realigned the action to eliminate this problem. However, I do believe that it was slapped together then shipped out.

The XD has similar feed problems with both sizes of magazines. I am shooting 230gr. copper round nose and 185gr. JHP The slide does not hang up on the rounds but it does slip right over them without feeding the first one into the chamber. It does it if I ride the slide forward or release the slide with the slide lock. I have found that I can overcome this by pulling up on the nose of the first round before loading it the weapon when it is locked open. Most times the following rounds will feed properly but sometimes it will cycle without chambering a round midway through the mag. This doesn't increase my confidence that the weapon will operate properly when its really needed. Murphey's Law rules! There's something off about the feed angle from the mags.....
Click to expand...
Thanks for the detailed description. Please keep us up to date on how it gets resolved.
 
RBWhit125 said:
My M1A has been difficult to disassemble/assemble since I purchased it new 4 years ago. It appears to me that an accumulation of machining tolerances has left it about a 1/16th of an inch to far forward for the rod to hit the 'sweet spot' of the cutout. I have metal on metal contact that blocks the rod from the cutout in the rear position. I used many M14's in the army and have never encountered this degree of difficulty in disassembling them for cleaning. Very aggravating.
I don't assume that the weapon was assembled, disassembled, then reassembled at the factory because if it had been a competent armorer would have polished or realigned the action to eliminate this problem. However, I do believe that it was slapped together then shipped out.

The XD has similar feed problems with both sizes of magazines. I am shooting 230gr. copper round nose and 185gr. JHP The slide does not hang up on the rounds but it does slip right over them without feeding the first one into the chamber. It does it if I ride the slide forward or release the slide with the slide lock. I have found that I can overcome this by pulling up on the nose of the first round before loading it the weapon when it is locked open. Most times the following rounds will feed properly but sometimes it will cycle without chambering a round midway through the mag. This doesn't increase my confidence that the weapon will operate properly when its really needed. Murphey's Law rules! There's something off about the feed angle from the mags.....
Click to expand...
Just a curiosity, you have owned it for 4 years, and just now getting in touch with service about it?
 
Sld1959 said:
Just a curiosity, you have owned it for 4 years, and just now getting in touch with service about it?
Click to expand...
It had been my hope that the problem was only due to a tight fit but after putting over 500 rounds through it, the condition has not improved. No amount of lube or jiggling the rod while holding the receiver at different angles has made it any easier to assemble/disassemble.
 
RBWhit125 said:
It had been my hope that the problem was only due to a tight fit but after putting over 500 rounds through it, the condition has not improved. No amount of lube or jiggling the rod while holding the receiver at different angles has made it any easier to assemble/disassemble.
Click to expand...
So a quick question, can you take it apart? Albeit being difficult.
 
Keystone19250 said:
So a quick question, can you take it apart? Albeit being difficult.
Click to expand...
It was difficult to disassemble/assemble when it was new out of the box. I put it down to being new and tight tolerances. However, having to spend an hour or more trying to hit that sweet for every disassembly and reassembly has tried my patience. Closely examining and cleaning the contact points between the rod, bolt, gas piston, and receiver indicates that there is no room additional clearance. I've seen the same problem before in my 30 year career as a mechanical engineer. It's usually the result of accumulated intolerances. Usually occurs as a result of the cutters on the CNC machine losing the sharpness of the cutting edges. Each individual piece is within its design specifications. All specifications come with a tolerance. Usually these even out over the course of manufacturing and assembly but if multiple pieces are out of spec but within tolerance all in the same direction. The accumulation of the tolerance can throw the whole assembly off in the same direction.
I had hoped that the pieces would 'wear in' and the fit would improve.
 
RBWhit125 said:
It was difficult to disassemble/assemble when it was new out of the box. I put it down to being new and tight tolerances. However, having to spend an hour or more trying to hit that sweet for every disassembly and reassembly has tried my patience. Closely examining and cleaning the contact points between the rod, bolt, gas piston, and receiver indicates that there is no room additional clearance. I've seen the same problem before in my 30 year career as a mechanical engineer. It's usually the result of accumulated intolerances. Usually occurs as a result of the cutters on the CNC machine losing the sharpness of the cutting edges. Each individual piece is within its design specifications. All specifications come with a tolerance. Usually these even out over the course of manufacturing and assembly but if multiple pieces are out of spec but within tolerance all in the same direction. The accumulation of the tolerance can throw the whole assembly off in the same direction.
I had hoped that the pieces would 'wear in' and the fit would improve.
Click to expand...

Could be, sometime is with older or much used tooling. Agree on some new guns taking time to break in. But, likely best thought may still be to contact / explain what issues are to SA customer service, possibly get an RA, ship it to them and let them go over it and double check specs to make sure things are set up right if gun is still having issues after this length of time? Other than that?

The posted video was to possibly help you with something you could possibly do beforehand, check or had somehow overlooked and to hopefully help others with assembly / disassembly at the same time. Good luck with yours.
 
RBWhit125 said:
It was difficult to disassemble/assemble when it was new out of the box. I put it down to being new and tight tolerances. However, having to spend an hour or more trying to hit that sweet for every disassembly and reassembly has tried my patience. Closely examining and cleaning the contact points between the rod, bolt, gas piston, and receiver indicates that there is no room additional clearance. I've seen the same problem before in my 30 year career as a mechanical engineer. It's usually the result of accumulated intolerances. Usually occurs as a result of the cutters on the CNC machine losing the sharpness of the cutting edges. Each individual piece is within its design specifications. All specifications come with a tolerance. Usually these even out over the course of manufacturing and assembly but if multiple pieces are out of spec but within tolerance all in the same direction. The accumulation of the tolerance can throw the whole assembly off in the same direction.
I had hoped that the pieces would 'wear in' and the fit would improve.
Click to expand...
You make some valid points.
Call Springfield Customer Service and explain your situation, they will work with you. Don’t email, call them.
 
The Scout M1A that I purchased in 1999 was a basket case on day one, 4 warranty repairs later and it was still unreliable. Customer service and the Custom shop at SAI did what they could to counter poor quality control, but it never ran right. The silver lining was that I was introduced to Ron Smith at SEI, Ron has built 5 M14s for me on Norinco & Poly Tech receivers, all 5 run like sewing machines, and they have never given me a single problem.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top