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Practice Distance

S

SATRP

Master Class
Founding Member
My friend is a member of an indoor range. I've shot with him at his range. I noticed that all shooters were shooting at targets at distances of 25' and beyond. I advised my friend to move his target to 10'. Within a few rounds he had point shooting wired.

After we left, I explained tactics to him. If distance permits, he should consider not engaging/disengaging and running to cover or, if possible, completely out of an area of danger.

Of course, all ranges of which I'm aware are target ranges. I know of no tactical shooting range in So Cal. However, a survivor can perfect point shooting skills at target ranges.

My suggestion (I'll be good if you were to disregard it.) is to practice point shooting at 10'. Keep in mind that if distance and circumstance are conducive, not engaging/disengaging and running out of danger might be the options that keep you vertical.
 
Morning SATRP, when I go out to practice self defense shooting, I usually do 7 yards, most that shoot 25 yards and such in my opinion, are just target practicing. I also use 8” paper plates as targets for my close shooting. I figure if I can keep my shots on the plate at that range, I should be good.
 
I start at 3 yrds point shoot for small groups. 25-50 rounds
Move target to 5 yards repeat drill from low ready and head down. 25-50 rounds
Move target to 7 yards repeating 5 yrd drill 25 rounds
Move target to 25 yards and practice distance hitting chest size target from standard stance 25 rounds
 
Nearly all my practice is done in the 10-yard to 25-yard range. I even practice point shooting at those distances. My reasoning is simple... If I can accurately hit small targets at longer distances, then the short distance stuff becomes child's play.

20-yards, offhand
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10-yards, offhand
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12-yards, offhand
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14-yards, offhand


15-yards, offhand
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15-yards, offhand
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15-yards, offhand
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18-yards, offhand (before I moved the rear sight
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My goal, as stated, is to aim small at distances further than I might need in a real encounter so that my aim will be true at most any realistic distance.

As you can see in the pictures above, some guns lend themselves to very, very accurate shooting, like my custom SA 1911 and the Walther PPQ 5". I have found that most of my M&P Pro's and my XDm 5.25" pistols are not far behind.
 
Anything 7 yds or closer I use 2 inch targets. I work with 4 inch targets from 10-20 yds and six inch targets at 25. I want to be able to put them in as small a space as possible. I really enjoy target shooting and I do tactical training as well to make sure I’ve got my bases covered.
 
You guys certainly appear to be knowledgeable survivors.

The only reason I thought of this is because I'm going shooting with him today at his range.

He is a man of considerable intelligence. He owns a Springfield Armory 1911-A1 target model. He is a recreational target shooter. However, after he shot my friend's EMP 3 9MM, he wants one. I told you he's of elevated intelligence ;-)
 
Although it appears that my post above might be some sort of a brag, and I can tell you that that is not my intent. I simply wanted to point out the distances that I practice shooting, and the reason why, but now I'll tell you what has changed in how I now practice shooting handguns...

I am 57 years old, and have always practiced firearms skills as a bullseye sport, which is exactly what many of the old-timer LEOs in my family taught, and why I used that as my measure of skill. About a year ago, I found out in a very harsh way that most of my bullseye-style shooting was just about useless. I found this out during my first tactical shooting skills training that was conducted by a local SWAT team trainer at their F.O.P shooting grounds.

What I discovered during this intensive training is that standing in a static position while shooting at a static target is NOT the skill I would need in a real-life shooting situation. Of the shooters at this class, I would have been considered one of the more skilled and experienced shooters as the first day started. During the course of the class, what i discovered about myself is that I was mediocre at best. There were newbie shooters that were running and gunning circles around me... It was humbling to say the least.

I will not say that bullseye skills are useless, but what I will now say is that Run & Gun skills are what will keep you alive in a real-life firefight. I'm just glad that I did not have to learn that the hard way.

As Paul Harvey used to say... "And now you know the rest of the story".
 
gglass said:
Although it appears that my post above might be some sort of a brag, and I can tell you that that is not my intent. I simply wanted to point out the distances that I practice shooting, and the reason why, but now I'll tell you what has changed in how I now practice shooting handguns...

I am 57 years old, and have always practiced firearms skills as a bullseye sport, which is exactly what many of the old-timer LEOs in my family taught, and why I used that as my measure of skill. About a year ago, I found out in a very harsh way that most of my bullseye-style shooting was just about useless. I found this out during my first tactical shooting skills training that was conducted by a local SWAT team trainer at their F.O.P shooting grounds.

What I discovered during this intensive training is that standing in a static position while shooting at a static target is NOT the skill I would need in a real-life shooting situation. Of the shooters at this class, I would have been considered one of the more skilled and experienced shooters as the first day started. During the course of the class, what i discovered about myself is that I was mediocre at best. There were newbie shooters that were running and gunning circles around me... It was humbling to say the least.

I will not say that bullseye skills are useless, but what I will now say is that Run & Gun skills are what will keep you alive in a real-life firefight. I'm just glad that I did not have to learn that the hard way.

As Paul Harvey used to say... "And now you know the rest of the story".
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You're an extremely wise man.

Standing stationary in front of a bad guy who's putting rounds on a good guy, carefully aligning sights, and returning fire is not a strategy for surviving a gunfight. The wise know of the importance of getting the heck out of a bad guy's sight picture.

Hightailing it to the next county, if it's an option, beats the heck out of getting shot.
 
I make an effort to bring my .380 backup/pocket guns to the range with me a few times a year, and always try to fire 20-25 rounds with the target 3 yards away (the minimum setting at my range). I always figured that if things got bad enough that I needed to use this type of gun, then this is the most likely distance for the situation to occur. I'll also fire about the same amount from my carry gun at this distance as a warm-up/refresher.

The only problem I'm having with this type of training recently is that my usual range now wants at least two seconds between shots. For years they were fine with double-taps or rapid three-shot sequences. I'm guessing the amount of brand new shooters hitting the range in the last few months led to the rule change. It's still better than nothing, but I doubt I will be counting to three between well-aimed shots during an actual self-defense situation.
 
SimonRL said:
gglass, I assume when you say you are offhand shooting that you are shooting single hand, strong side?
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by off hand, I simply mean standing unsupported. In these cases, I also mean 2-handed... I have never been all that good at 1-handed shooting, strong side or not.

The only correction to the claims in the pics would be the 1st picture at 20 yards should read as 10 shots... Not 15. In the interest of full disclosure, I will also say that I never take pictures of turd groups. (I don't have that much memory on my phone)
 
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I don't do many videos, because I'm not very good at them, but here is a short video of an M&P40 at 25-yards. I shot this video while shooting with my daughter, since we were the only people on the range that day.


Not my absolute best group, but not too shabby either.
 
gglass said:
by off hand, I simply mean standing unsupported. In these cases, I also mean 2-handed... I have never been all that good at 1-handed shooting, strong side or not.

The only correction to the claims in the pics would be the 1st picture at 20 yards should read as 10 shots... Not 15. In the interest of full disclosure, I will also say that I never take pictures of turd groups. (I don't have that much memory on my phone)
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Roger that. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I’m a pretty decent shooter but I thought I was going to have to double down at the range. You ask three people what offhand means and you get three different answers! I’m totally the same way when it comes to taking pictures of bad groups. Thanks again.
 
SimonRL said:
Roger that. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I’m a pretty decent shooter but I thought I was going to have to double down at the range. You ask three people what offhand means and you get three different answers! I’m totally the same way when it comes to taking pictures of bad groups. Thanks again.
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I have always assumed and referred to off hand shooting as shooting without the aid of a rest.
 
SimonRL said:
I did too, but I thought if I’m going to keep patting myself on the back thinking I’m all that and a bag of chips then maybe I’m going to have to start shooting one-handed, but let me just check first...

I’m glad I dodged that bullet (excuse the pun).
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You absolutely need to run drills and practice shooting one handed. And from your weak side, one handed and two handed.
 
This thread and the posts says a lot about how we are all similar/different in our approach at how we practice.
it also highlights what’s allowed at different ranges, the one I frequent has designated hand gun lanes and min/max distances with targets, also no holster draws. Also you can shoot a handgun from a rifle lane if handgun lanes are full or a class is in session however min target distance is 25 yards. From what I understand Many of the rules are due to accidents in years past including fatalities.
 
Thankfully my range allows double taps. I also practice about 40% of my shots with one hand. As an "Old" guy shooting one hand seems pretty natural. Now shooting weak hand the target is safe. gglass, for someone who used to shoot Bullseye that was damn good shooting.
 
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