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Quest for a quality .380

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Archym

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I've searched all over this and several other forums trying to find what seems to be impossible: A mid-budget, accurate, comfortable .380 to take to the range. So far my father and I have wasted money on the Springfield Armory 911 and recently the RIA "Baby Rock". The 911 is an absolute disappointment except for the well made 3 dot sights. Despite having such nice sights, with the barrel wobble and the sloppy machining, one would be lucky to get a 4" pattern at even a 5 yard range. The over inflated price of the gun is only compounded by the cost of the magazines. The Baby Rock is dripping with disappointments as well. Those can be read all over the various forums over the past two years or how ever long it's been since RIA "Updated" the gun with what is probably considered one of the industries worst triggers. After picking it up at an Almost Local Gun Store (an hour away) and after a very thorough cleaning, there was still a film, or coating, or what ever, all over the INSIDE of the barrel. The fist 20 shots made a similar 4 - 5" pattern at 7 yards and I thought we had another metal turkey destined for the consignment chopping block. After the next 20 rounds though, from a two handed resting position and aiming to the farthest right hand ring of a "trouble shooter" target (equates to about 4 inches from the center) I was managing to get the patterns down to slightly less than two inches and in the x ring. The trigger though...jeezuz. It's every bit of 9lbs or more that others have reported. The other disappointments and contrary to any video review are the deplorable sights, the lack of aftermarket grips, and a price that is a slap in the face for a gun that is essentially just a Llama Micro-Max. I cut my teeth on target grade Ruger Mk IIs and heavily modified 1911s. I know what I want out of a trigger, and the Baby Rock doesn't have it.

Neither of these guns come close to the 1911 heritage they claim to be based on. For the price paid for both of these guns, and selling off a kidney, I could have afforded the Browning Black Label .380 - something that looks and feels like a true 1911.

Is there ANY manufacturer out there that makes, or has made a Full Size (4" or longer barrel), single action, reliable, accurate handgun chambered in .380?
 
I have had excellant results with the Browning 1911, it's not cheap, but it has been a joy to shoot and carry.

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Archym said:
I've searched all over this and several other forums trying to find what seems to be impossible: A mid-budget, accurate, comfortable .380 to take to the range. So far my father and I have wasted money on the Springfield Armory 911 and recently the RIA "Baby Rock". The 911 is an absolute disappointment except for the well made 3 dot sights. Despite having such nice sights, with the barrel wobble and the sloppy machining, one would be lucky to get a 4" pattern at even a 5 yard range. The over inflated price of the gun is only compounded by the cost of the magazines. The Baby Rock is dripping with disappointments as well. Those can be read all over the various forums over the past two years or how ever long it's been since RIA "Updated" the gun with what is probably considered one of the industries worst triggers. After picking it up at an Almost Local Gun Store (an hour away) and after a very thorough cleaning, there was still a film, or coating, or what ever, all over the INSIDE of the barrel. The fist 20 shots made a similar 4 - 5" pattern at 7 yards and I thought we had another metal turkey destined for the consignment chopping block. After the next 20 rounds though, from a two handed resting position and aiming to the farthest right hand ring of a "trouble shooter" target (equates to about 4 inches from the center) I was managing to get the patterns down to slightly less than two inches and in the x ring. The trigger though...jeezuz. It's every bit of 9lbs or more that others have reported. The other disappointments and contrary to any video review are the deplorable sights, the lack of aftermarket grips, and a price that is a slap in the face for a gun that is essentially just a Llama Micro-Max. I cut my teeth on target grade Ruger Mk IIs and heavily modified 1911s. I know what I want out of a trigger, and the Baby Rock doesn't have it.

Neither of these guns come close to the 1911 heritage they claim to be based on. For the price paid for both of these guns, and selling off a kidney, I could have afforded the Browning Black Label .380 - something that looks and feels like a true 1911.

Is there ANY manufacturer out there that makes, or has made a Full Size (4" or longer barrel), single action, reliable, accurate handgun chambered in .380?
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Beretta 84/85 Cheetah is as close as you’re going to get.

Although—if you can find one—the CZ83 ain’t too shabby.

I like my Sphinx AT380M…but they are hard to find, and factory magazines are basically unobtanium.

You could also go find a Colt 1908…that’s perhaps one of the nicest .380’s you’ll ever shoot.

ETA: Missed the single action part. The Cheetah can be carried “cocked and locked”, even though it’s a DA/SA pistol. The CZ maybe can, as well…been a while since I played with one. The Sphinx is right out, being DAO.

The Colt 1908 is pretty much the only thing meeting your specifications…
 
My favorite full-size or close to full-size .380 is my Tisas Fatih .380. The Fatih is a straight-forward Beretta Cheetah clone that sells for about half the price of the Beretta. It will accept Beretta 84 magazines (I recommend Mec-Gar), which are reasonably affordable. Mine has been 100% reliable, and the open-top design (similar to the Beretta 92) is known for reliable ejection. When shopping for a Tisas "Fatih", some sellers mistakenly call it the Tisas "Faith". It doesn't hurt to check both spellings when looking for deals.

I'm sorry that you didn't like your 911 or Baby Rock. I love both of mine, but I never expect too much from the triggers of small guns. I don't shoot either of them that much because my Ruger LCP Max covers all of my pocket-carry needs. With 10 or 12 round magazines and excellent sights, I highly recommend the LCP Max if you decide to go with a smaller .380.
 
I'm a visual guy, so I took a few pics of the Tisas Fatih with some other .380's (RIA Baby Rock, Glock 42, Ruger LCP II). I realized that I completely forgot to mention the Glock 42. The 42 is reliable and affordable. It's a small Glock, so Glock fans will love it and Glock haters won't. The Bersa Thunder is the working man's Walther PPK, but it's also a fun gun. The double-stack Bersa Thunder Plus has a 15-round mag and the wide grip makes it what I consider to be a full-size gun. The Thunder Plus is very affordable, but magazines usually run about $40 when they are available.

Fatih vs. Baby Rock.jpgFatih vs. Glock 42.jpgFatih vs. LCP II.jpg
 
My wife loves her M&P Shield EZ380...I like to shoot it as well. I won't claim it has a 3lb trigger, but it's as good as my P365 or 10mm 1911 Ronin trigger(s). The take-up travel is a tad long, the reset is a tad quiet. One thing I hate though is 8-round single-stack mags. The grip safety never bothered me one bit (since I like 1911's anyway). $500 currently +/- in most markets. 3-5/8" barrel length...Probably a 5-6lb trigger, I don't have a gauge for that though...
 
HansGruber said:
Beretta 84/85 Cheetah is as close as you’re going to get.

Although—if you can find one—the CZ83 ain’t too shabby.

I like my Sphinx AT380M…but they are hard to find, and factory magazines are basically unobtanium.

You could also go find a Colt 1908…that’s perhaps one of the nicest .380’s you’ll ever shoot.

ETA: Missed the single action part. The Cheetah can be carried “cocked and locked”, even though it’s a DA/SA pistol. The CZ maybe can, as well…been a while since I played with one. The Sphinx is right out, being DAO.

The Colt 1908 is pretty much the only thing meeting your specifications…
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My wife had one of the Cheetah’s with the tip up barrel feature, nice little gun, but I had issues with hammer bite, kind of got a fleshy hand, but never an issue and it fed anything I threw at it
 
My 85 FS decocks with the safety, so no cocked and locked. It is a little jewel that I only shoot occasionally.
I have a Baby Rock that is ammo sensitive, but isn't truly broken in so that may change.
I have no issues with my 911.
I had an LCP II that I liked, but a friend needed it more.
I almost bought the LCP Max ($380), but I got the Max 9 and the Shield Plus for $9 more and they came with 2 magazines instead of 1. It made more sense for me to go with 9 mm for that kind of money.
 
The Browning BDA is an absolutely beautiful piece of machinery. I've lusted after one for more than a decade now. Unfortunately, the prices on them will undoubtedly go no where but even further beyond my purchasing power. A Beretta Model 83 would be wonderful as well. But the rarity of finding one is similar if not identical to finding a Browning BDA.

I recently got to shoot one of the Browning Black Label Versions in .22LR. Wow. There was almost NO felt recoil. Shooting at 12 yards I put 4 shots in one hole and had one flyer...sadly for me the flyer was much closer to the bullseye than the tightly grouped shots. But still. It is a very nicely made handgun. I'm still holding out some hope for the Baby Rock. After painting the front sight with some Tru-Glow and some painstaking windage adjustments on the rear sights, I'm getting closer to that magic "One-hole-in-the-middle" mark. Not much closer. But some. I'm hoping that after about 1000 rounds through it the trigger will give in and offer me at least a little relief. Pulling an extremely thin trigger at 10lbs and trying to keep your shots on target can lead to a little digit soreness at the end of a range session.

WMG1299, My father has and carries the Ruger LC9 after trading for his LCP (gen 1). Had we been able to find the dies for reloading .380s back then he may have never traded it. I've always been a fan of most Rugers, aside from the early generations of the P89 and P90. I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the trigger and the accuracy of my friends SR9C as well.

I just trust a handgun that has a hammer on the back of it a little bit more. I'm not old enough to be considered "Old School", but I was trained by those who were. I've come to respect their wisdom and appreciate the preferences they've passed on.

...or maybe I'm just a control freak. <shrug>

Does anyone know if there would be alternate sight options for the Tisas Fatih? Are they a proprietary metric or would aftermarket manufacturer's options be a possibility?
 
Oh, JFAL(and others)...thank you for mentioning the S&W Shield EZ. Those are becoming more and more considered as my father ages. He's not quite to the point where the pain of arthritis will keep him from the fun of enjoying a morning at the range. But none of us are getting any younger either. He bought the S/A 911 and was disappointed with the performance. I bought the RIA Baby Rock and both of us are disappointed with the trigger. Maybe if we sell both of them we could afford one of the offerings from the S&W Performance Center in the Shield EZ varieties.
 
Archym said:
Oh, JFAL(and others)...thank you for mentioning the S&W Shield EZ. Those are becoming more and more considered as my father ages. He's not quite to the point where the pain of arthritis will keep him from the fun of enjoying a morning at the range. But none of us are getting any younger either. He bought the S/A 911 and was disappointed with the performance. I bought the RIA Baby Rock and both of us are disappointed with the trigger. Maybe if we sell both of them we could afford one of the offerings from the S&W Performance Center in the Shield EZ varieties.
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My 81 year old father's arthritic hands and decreasing upper body strength make it nearly impossible for him to rack a 1911, which has been his handgun of choice, at least for my entire life. He gave me all of his 1911s and I bought him an EZ .380. This was before they came out with the EZ 9, which he now covets. Historically, like me, he distrusted the 9mm and even more so the .380. Current ammo for those rounds has made them both much more effective and viable as a SD caliber.

As for the problems that plagued a lot of the early EZ .380s, none of these ever materialized with my dad's. Thousands of rounds now with no malfunctions. And they are ridiculously easy to rack.

Me personally, if I was in the market for a .380 I would definitely be looking at the Browning Black Label.
 
Bassbob said:
My 81 year old father's arthritic hands and decreasing upper body strength make it nearly impossible for him to rack a 1911, which has been his handgun of choice, at least for my entire life. He gave me all of his 1911s and I bought him an EZ .380. This was before they came out with the EZ 9, which he now covets. Historically, like me, he distrusted the 9mm and even more so the .380. Current ammo for those rounds has made them both much more effective and viable as a SD caliber.

As for the problems that plagued a lot of the early EZ .380s, none of these ever materialized with my dad's. Thousands of rounds now with no malfunctions. And they are ridiculously easy to rack.

Me personally, if I was in the market for a .380 I would definitely be looking at the Browning Black Label.
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The Browning Black Label .380 slide, for most of folks that shot mine, feel the slide is super easy. Even for the weary
 
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