Annihilator
Emissary
Nice little article on red dots for handguns, my Hellcat came with the WASP site, old school with iron sights, but giving the dot a try again.
Red-Dot Sights: Points to Ponder
- Thread starter Annihilator
- Start date
Keystone19250
SAINT
Good article, I started out struggling to find the dot and realized quickly it’s all about muscle memory just like getting iron sites lined up. I have definitely been practicing at home both during the day and at night.
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
The 1st time I used a dot it was a learning curve for sure. I tried finding the dot before shooting and found that loking at the target then bringing the gun up for poi was a whole lot better/faster.
Keystone19250
SAINT
Agreed. I will honestly say I was worried when I started using mine to just zero it in and thought I wasted my money but quickly realized I was rushing to find the dot and moving the gun to find it I was going past it in the glass. I also then realized that although I didn’t hit the bullseye I was making center mass shots.
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
I thought this was an article I've read before by the same person? Well it's a different 1. Good points.
Keystone19250
SAINT
So here’s a question that I pondered when trying to zero my Holosun on my handgun is do they make bore site lasers for handgun’s? I have three for long guns to assist getting scopes zeroed without using a lot of rounds.
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
They do for most cartridges, especially the popular ones. The 40cal covers 40s&w, 10mm and maybe 357sig. 38spl should cover 357mag along with 44spl working with 44mag.
Keystone19250
SAINT
Good to know thanks.
Bassbob
Emissary
Brownells sells a universal bore sight that has adaptors for most calibers.
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
If the universal doesn't have the external power source it should be fine. If it is wired then the chamber won't fully close and the barrel will not be in firing position. That is in the case of semi auto pistols.
Bassbob
Emissary
The one I have is battery operated and goes in the muzzle end of the barrel. Furthermore, every red dot I have was on paper from jump. At least one was already zero'ed and required no adjustment. With a RDMS, it would be faster to set the dot on top of the front sight, then shoot it and adjust it accordingly. It should be on paper.
Annihilator
Emissary
I too had issues with finding the dot, got fed up and removed it, but I recently put it back on cause a friend of mine is going to help me set it up
SimonRL
Hellcat
Anni, I hear there’s a pill for that.
As Simpson wrote in the section titled "Red Dots on Handguns," the RDS is all about consistency.
With a long-gun, we are all more consistent when we "present" the gun because we're "mounting" the gun. The extra points-of-contact with the gun enhances our kinesthetic awareness, and most importantly, that "cheek" puts the shooter's eyes alignment with the sight axis. As long as we cheek the gun consistently as we mount it -and good technique with the gun would insist that we do so- we are essentially cheating this consistency.
With the handgun/pistol, there's no cheeking involved - we lose this point of reference completely.
That, combined with the fact that many shooters are really "just floating the gun out there" means that there's very little feedback given to us to help achieve "dot alignment." This translates to the very visible "search for the dot" game that we see with a lot of newer or less-well-practiced pistol-RDS shooters, as they either wiggle the gun in their wrist or shift their eye/head - or worse yet, both! - as they try to "find the dot."
With traditional open irons, the supercomputer that is our eye/brain axis cheats as we start to present the handgun in front of us. We pick up on how we're presenting the gun - the gun's physical body as well as the sights - and more experienced shooters know to pick up a "flash" sight-picture as soon as those sights start to float into focus in front of us. Even in conditions of low-light or where speed is of the utmost, we still tend to track the front sight to help guide our initial aim. We have, through shooting hundreds upon thousands of reps, developed these visual cues and reference points to aid our aim as we come to full extension so that when we reach terminus on that rail, our sight package is perfect...or at least pretty darned close...and we can pull the trigger.
With the RDS, to some degree or another, these visual cues are limited or completely eliminated. Various instructors advocate using the slide, front sight post, the top of the RDS body or what-have-you, basically to help the shooter find that "cheat" for our eye/brain. But as Simpson wrote in the cited section above, the real trick is to become so consistent with the presentation that the dot simply appears right in-axis and properly aligned between your intended the threat (i.e. POA) and your eyes.
Doing this at full-presentation typically requires a bit of practice - but it shouldn't be where you stop, as a good shooter: instead, get a feel for what happens when you present your gun one-handed (with either the dominant hand or the non-dominant), as well as from unconventional/disadvantaged positions such as the fetal/urban-prone, and/or when you're shooting from behind cover. What's easy to do with both hands and at full-extension with a perfect presentation may otherwise be unexpectedly difficult.
Finally, I would encourage all RDS users to experiment with what happens to their dot when their "tactical" white-light is engaged, be it a WML or a stand-alone handheld. Go to your closet and pick out a few different types and colors of clothing, and see how at typical engagement distances the dot may look on these different backgrounds, both with and without the light engaged.
With a long-gun, we are all more consistent when we "present" the gun because we're "mounting" the gun. The extra points-of-contact with the gun enhances our kinesthetic awareness, and most importantly, that "cheek" puts the shooter's eyes alignment with the sight axis. As long as we cheek the gun consistently as we mount it -and good technique with the gun would insist that we do so- we are essentially cheating this consistency.
With the handgun/pistol, there's no cheeking involved - we lose this point of reference completely.
That, combined with the fact that many shooters are really "just floating the gun out there" means that there's very little feedback given to us to help achieve "dot alignment." This translates to the very visible "search for the dot" game that we see with a lot of newer or less-well-practiced pistol-RDS shooters, as they either wiggle the gun in their wrist or shift their eye/head - or worse yet, both! - as they try to "find the dot."
With traditional open irons, the supercomputer that is our eye/brain axis cheats as we start to present the handgun in front of us. We pick up on how we're presenting the gun - the gun's physical body as well as the sights - and more experienced shooters know to pick up a "flash" sight-picture as soon as those sights start to float into focus in front of us. Even in conditions of low-light or where speed is of the utmost, we still tend to track the front sight to help guide our initial aim. We have, through shooting hundreds upon thousands of reps, developed these visual cues and reference points to aid our aim as we come to full extension so that when we reach terminus on that rail, our sight package is perfect...or at least pretty darned close...and we can pull the trigger.
With the RDS, to some degree or another, these visual cues are limited or completely eliminated. Various instructors advocate using the slide, front sight post, the top of the RDS body or what-have-you, basically to help the shooter find that "cheat" for our eye/brain. But as Simpson wrote in the cited section above, the real trick is to become so consistent with the presentation that the dot simply appears right in-axis and properly aligned between your intended the threat (i.e. POA) and your eyes.
Doing this at full-presentation typically requires a bit of practice - but it shouldn't be where you stop, as a good shooter: instead, get a feel for what happens when you present your gun one-handed (with either the dominant hand or the non-dominant), as well as from unconventional/disadvantaged positions such as the fetal/urban-prone, and/or when you're shooting from behind cover. What's easy to do with both hands and at full-extension with a perfect presentation may otherwise be unexpectedly difficult.
Finally, I would encourage all RDS users to experiment with what happens to their dot when their "tactical" white-light is engaged, be it a WML or a stand-alone handheld. Go to your closet and pick out a few different types and colors of clothing, and see how at typical engagement distances the dot may look on these different backgrounds, both with and without the light engaged.
Bear007
Custom
Yes they make bore sight lasers. I have inexpensive ones bought on sale for .380, 9mm & .38 spl that slide right into the chambers. I use them aiming across my basement whenever I put on a new laser or RDS.
The one thing you might consider when using them is rotating the boresight between 0°, 90°, 180° & 270° while comparing it to your laser, RDS or scope before making any adjustments. I found that 1 of my 3 boresights is not exactly true so rotating the boresight allowed me to see the deviation and find my own center. It was still cheaper than firing ammo to find where you sight is, especially when it might be way off target to start with.
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
I've read that in another place before. Good info @Bear007 ! Make indexing marks on the sighter, so 1 doesn't get lost.
Bear007
Custom
Yes you need a mark, I just use the permanent marker from my work table, it's easy and convenient.