Red Dots on Carry Guns: Dumb Idea?

[TheHumbleMarksman]

So I just picked up a Kimber Aegis 9mm 1911 with a Vortex Red Dot. I took it to the range and I was not all that pleased. As many have said, not great for close up. Distance was better. I assume it will take time to get used to and get faster and I understand that. After about 100 rounds the battery cover come off and the battery went down range. My guess is you must check it every time if you are going to use it in a self defense situation. Not a good time for that to happen.

for up close shooting a dot is actually better - you just don't know how to use it yet. Even for "point shooting" you don't end up guiding the dot to aim with - you can observe where it lifts from on the target to know where you hit as the shot breaks before the bullet arrives. The benefit at middle and long ranges is obvious - but it requires total target focused shooting to do it properly. Put tape on the front of the optic lens then try and shoot. If the target disappears you're looking at the dot, not the target.

 

[dcssteve]

Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled Red Dots on Carry Guns: Dumb Idea? and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/red-dots-on-carry-guns-dumb-idea/.

Been a while since people have replied and there certainly has been some evolution in reflex sights (red dots). There are just a couple of things to point out. I do not see a real downside to having a red dot if you a have good set of co-witness sights. I select a very visible front sight, white dot, fiber optic, or Tritium with luminescent ring. Why, because you still have highly visible irons. Having the good co-witness sight can help getting the dot on screen but also if there no dot because of incorrect intensity, you have your sights. Seems the best of both worlds. Keen eyesight and good irons really does work well but if you eyesight is somewhat degraded, red dots really help. I think the red dot intensity setting is one of the challenging things about red dots. Auto settings on ambient light do not work well when there is contrasting light between downrange and shooter position. I use manual intensity and use red dots with easily accessible brightness adjustments. Close range is one thing but Ithink about a situation where you may encounter a mass shooter who is not that close. I want accuracy for that. Odds are extremely low that you will encounter this but it has happened. We absolutely do not want to hit the wrong person. Reflex sights like the Holosun ESP Carry are really game changers for smaller carry pistols.

 

[CAPMARINE276]

Not a fan of the concept. because it affords the non-professional an excuse not to practice. "Put the red dot on the target and pull the trigger, what can go wrong?"

Also, there's the danger that a lawyer will try to make the case that since the red dot allows more precise shot placement, one should have 'shot to wound' rather than aiming at COM.

The sheriff gave us deputies the G17/ RMR. Couldn’t hit a thing. Too old school

 

[Bassbob]

The sheriff gave us deputies the G17/ RMR. Couldn’t hit a thing. Too old school

Too old school isn’t why you couldn’t hit anything brother. It’s why you wouldn’t train with the optic

 

[MrMichaelActual]

Been a while since people have replied and there certainly has been some evolution in reflex sights (red dots). There are just a couple of things to point out. I do not see a real downside to having a red dot if you a have good set of co-witness sights. I select a very visible front sight, white dot, fiber optic, or Tritium with luminescent ring. Why, because you still have highly visible irons. Having the good co-witness sight can help getting the dot on screen but also if there no dot because of incorrect intensity, you have your sights. Seems the best of both worlds. Keen eyesight and good irons really does work well but if you eyesight is somewhat degraded, red dots really help. I think the red dot intensity setting is one of the challenging things about red dots. Auto settings on ambient light do not work well when there is contrasting light between downrange and shooter position. I use manual intensity and use red dots with easily accessible brightness adjustments. Close range is one thing but Ithink about a situation where you may encounter a mass shooter who is not that close. I want accuracy for that. Odds are extremely low that you will encounter this but it has happened. We absolutely do not want to hit the wrong person. Reflex sights like the Holosun ESP Carry are really game changers for smaller carry pistols.

Green dots are starting to be made by all the companies and they do not seem to have most of the issues related to light and shadow etc... also, I like what Pew Pew said about them in their test of green vs red:
Quicker target acquisition: green dots increase our reflex time because it is easier to perceive and process the wavelength of the color due to its central placement on the spectrum.
Source: https://gun-data.com/red-dot-vs-green-dot

 

[SimonRL]

Been a while since people have replied and there certainly has been some evolution in reflex sights (red dots). There are just a couple of things to point out. I do not see a real downside to having a red dot if you a have good set of co-witness sights. I select a very visible front sight, white dot, fiber optic, or Tritium with luminescent ring. Why, because you still have highly visible irons. Having the good co-witness sight can help getting the dot on screen but also if there no dot because of incorrect intensity, you have your sights. Seems the best of both worlds. Keen eyesight and good irons really does work well but if you eyesight is somewhat degraded, red dots really help. I think the red dot intensity setting is one of the challenging things about red dots. Auto settings on ambient light do not work well when there is contrasting light between downrange and shooter position. I use manual intensity and use red dots with easily accessible brightness adjustments. Close range is one thing but Ithink about a situation where you may encounter a mass shooter who is not that close. I want accuracy for that. Odds are extremely low that you will encounter this but it has happened. We absolutely do not want to hit the wrong person. Reflex sights like the Holosun ESP Carry are really game changers for smaller carry pistols.

It’s interesting the developments in the optics field since this thread started. Now we’re talking about green dots rather than red dots, red dots that charge using solar or ambient light, open vs closed emitter. Red dots are almost standard on pistols these days and by the time this thread ages another four years they will be. The firearms industry recognizes this, as do the vast majority of new shooters who don’t have to unlearn an outmoded system. It will be interesting to see whether new shooters feel the need to have iron sights that cowitness. I doubt it. I’m hoping that we are not far off seeing pistol mounted microprisms with an etched reticle. If your battery goes out - which will also eventually be a thing of the past - your reticle is still visible. Best of all worlds.

Btw, if you are using your irons to confirm your red dot is on target, you are doing it wrong and costing yourself precious milliseconds.

 

[rcurtner]

I was a hard sell on RDS, definitely old school. My old eyes were having a hard time focusing on the front sight. After literally hundreds of dry fire draws acquiring the dot I was ready for the range. To my pleasant surprise, after a few hundred rounds I feel confident to use rds's on my carry guns.