reloading questions/advice if you would please?

[Old_Me]

ok, i'll go and check and re-adjust the powder thru die. all other cases previously fed thru the entire Lee press with no issues.

the OAL measures like the "used" casings.

thanks

 

[jumpinjoe]

my bench has adjustable legs, so it cannot be bolted down

lightweight bench...??

hardly at 45 lbs.

Take heed to what "youngolddude" had to say about case lube. There's several good ones out there, but be especially care to use one that is not petroleum based and will not contaminate your powder. I personally use "Lee" water based lub. It comes in a squeeze tube much like toothpaste. I mix it with a little rubbing alcohol to thin it way down (about 10 to 1 IIRC) nad a tube goes a long way. I just dip a Q-tip into the very thin liquid and roll it around the edge of the container to wring it out a little, then rub it around the inside of the case mouth. Give them a few minutes to air dry, then load 'em up as usual. It doesn't even hurt to wet the outside of the case before running them into the sizing die either.

And for the table ..... I don't know about 45 lbs. I don't think I've ever used or known of a loading bench that lightweight, but I can see how it would be easy to lift with the leverage of some of this loading equipment. Here living in this apartment, I don't have room for a very large bench so I set up a 16" X 32" roll around tool cart that doesn't weigh but about 10-12 pounds. Even after adding all my presses, dies, bullets, powder, and all other necessary things, it still doesn't weight but maybe 30 ponds. To make it work for me I have to sit at one end while I'm working the press and put my foot on the edge of the lower shelf to keep it from lifting. Or, I'll use my left hand to hold back on the press while I'm lowering the ram with the right hand. I'll try to attach a few pictures to show you what I work with.

The first two are from when I simply bolted a small shelf to the side of my gun safe and mounted my single stage press on that. I sat on a bar stool in my bedroom loading, and had to put all my tools and components on my bed. The wife wasn't real crazy about that so I bought the cart and added a table to it to mount my presses, etc. But like I said, it's pretty lightweight so I just step on the lower shelf to hold it down. As an aside, even without stepping on it, it doesn't lift when using any die except the #1 sizer die.

Got to run for a little while, but will check back when I return.

 

[youngolddude]

I have Dillon case lube that is a pump spray. I have two cans of XXXXXX that I'll use after the Dillon runs out. I'm not sure how a Lee functions any longer since it's been decades, but the Dillon powder funnel flares the case mouth as it dumps powder. There is no way that should stick on that machine. The flare is only enough to get the bullet started. I use lube in my case feeder which stirs up the brass before filling the tube. If you don't have that, you would do it in a tub or bowl of some sort.
I give 3 or 4 shots into the case feeder bowl and let sit for a few minutes. If I run into some added resistance after a few hundred rounds, I'll give it a shot or two. You don't need to mess with mixing stuff today. Buy a product that is ready to use and be done with it.

 

[TEXASforLIFE]

There are some dies that don't need to have cases lubed. I think it's carbide or maybe they just last longer?

 

[youngolddude]

They say carbide dies (straight wall cases) do not require lube, but I use lube and all my dies are carbide. It may not be too bad if you load just a few, but brother, if you load a couple of thousand, you're arm will love you if you use it.

 

[jumpinjoe]

I too use carbide dies and generally do not need to lube cases. But on occasion, depending on how old the cases are and/or how much tarnish if any, I'll put a little lube on them. I like the "Lee" lube primarily because it's wax based and once dry, even if thinned with water will not contaminate my powder charge. I wrote earlier that it is water based, but not so, slip of the pen I guess. It is wax based and therefore can be thinned with water or alcohol. I prefer the alcohol because it dries so much faster. I only thin it down to make it go a little farther, a little easier to use and I can apply a much thinner coat. I'll sometimes put it into a little plastic spray bottle as well. I feel petroleum based lubes are sometimes pretty time intensive in waiting for them to dry, and if not completely dry can contaminate a powder charge.

YMMV!

 

[TEXASforLIFE]

I bought some sizing wax, but haven't used it yet. I think it's mainly used for the mouth? I haven't reloaded since purchase.

 

[TEXASforLIFE]

Does anyone do "notifications" on reloading component sites? Well, I do and as luck wouldn't have it I get email notification that n565 is in stock at 5:04pm. Well guess what I was doing at that time! 7th grade football game! Last 1 of the season for them. I didn't get to check email until 6 hours later and then went out of stock again . Probably good tho, because hazmat and shipping would kill me......well more like my wife would!

 

[TEXASforLIFE]

I guess prices went up now we have 54 states.......how long was I asleep?

 

[Old_Me]

rather than to quote everyone, yes, all my dies are Lee carbide dies, being used on the Lee and Dillon presses.

1) the Lee press, you have to put the ram all the way up to the top to deprime and resize, then all the way to the bottom to install the primer, then all the way back up again to load the powder. (don't forget, this is an automatic indexing press)

2) you have to go all the way to the top, cuz, the next casing is also getting deprimed, and so on and so forth

3) the Starline casings, came with a "fact sheet" that they are "lubed" with an anti-corrosion substance, both inside and outside.

4) they do not mention that i lube them. but right now, it is 5:45 AM, and i have to take a buddy to my club in a little bit, but i can confirm this later.

5) as far as i know, when it goes to the powder drop, the powder funnel goes all the way into the bottom (or near bottom) of the shell casing, drop the powder, then off to the bullet seating die. then off the the crimping die.

6) all same ole, same ole, since the day i got it.my "best guess" is that since the cases are new, they need to go thru the process at least once, then the brass will be more cooperative in future reloadings?

7) i just think it strange, but many of you pointed out the different features of both presses, that the Dillon, all the new cases were like a hot knife to butter.

8) i looked at some "home remedy" case lubes, but no store here sells 99% rubbing alcohol, not bottles of liquid lanolin

9) i checked the pricing on Lee case lube, best i could find (cheaper not nearly free) is from Midway @ $5.00...hell even Amazon does not sell it, but has retailers and the prices are like $9.00 + for that 2oz tube..!!!!!!


10) i'll "experiment" this weekend, even a guy on you tube said cooking spray can be used, but don't get it inside the casing?

11) but it's INSIDE the casing that needs lubing, to allow it to accept the powder drop, and to "release it" with not getting stuck onto it.....

thanks again, you guys rock (and maybe roll too...lol)

 

[youngolddude]

The Dillon lube is $15.99/ 8 oz.
The aerosol is by Hornady (I've not used this yet):
"The Hornady One-Shot Case Lube is the most popular case and tool lube on the market. The One-Shot Case Lube is clean, non-sticky, quick and easy to use, and the non-petroleum wax will not contaminate powder or primers. The aerosol spray can allows you to lube an entire block of cases in one shot, which is great when loading large quantities of ammunition."
This is $17.99/ 10 oz.

It's like blowing up an air mattress. You can do it by using your mouth and lungs, but you might find it easier to use a pump when you have multiple mattresses.

 

[Old_Me]

I have Dillon case lube that is a pump spray. I have two cans of XXXXXX that I'll use after the Dillon runs out. I'm not sure how a Lee functions any longer since it's been decades, but the Dillon powder funnel flares the case mouth as it dumps powder. There is no way that should stick on that machine. The flare is only enough to get the bullet started. I use lube in my case feeder which stirs up the brass before filling the tube. If you don't have that, you would do it in a tub or bowl of some sort.
I give 3 or 4 shots into the case feeder bowl and let sit for a few minutes. If I run into some added resistance after a few hundred rounds, I'll give it a shot or two. You don't need to mess with mixing stuff today. Buy a product that is ready to use and be done with it.

ok, the owner of the bait store, has been helping me with some reloading questions, he has a home made lube, consisting of a bottle of HEET gasoline line antifreeze, that comes in a red bottle, and a bottle of aloe

then out that mix into a spray bottle.

1 bottle of HEET, and 1 ounce of aloe, shake, apply.

but i also checked the DIllon site for thier lube as well, i might purchase that, as well as at least 1 tube of the Lee that @jumpinjoe uses.

the above mentioned owner, has like nearly 10(?) Dillon 1100's.........

I'm not familiar with how the Dillon works their charging step in the loading process, but the Lee does have an expanding plug in the "Powder Through Expander" die that actually goes inside the case during the powder charging drop and expands the case mouth to an exact size (based on caliber) as it's withdrawn (ram is lowered). Ordinarily that doesn't create any problem and in my estimation is a benefit since when the case is full length sized, it sometimes will not be the exact size needed but a tad undersized depending on exactly how the sizing die has been adjusted and/or the wall thickness of the particular case being used. I'll assume Dillon uses some other method to open the case mouth after sizing so there is no apparent pull/sticking.

Now usually that withdrawal of the 'expanding' plug will not lift a table, but I do remember your mentioning your table is pretty lightweight. That in itself may be the issue with the "Lee" design, but there could be several others. I'd suggest doing a little research before condemning the "Lee" press.

Just my first thoughts. Let us know what you find.

you mentioned about maybe an adjustment...

at (again) the above mentioned bait store, another reloader was there. i ran this problem to him..

he went on to say that Starline brass is "tiny bit" thicker than other brass.

which can give it a longer reloading life, but aside form that, he also thinks that since the Starlin brass is "thicker" to maybe readjust the powder die, for even a lesser bellmouth that i already have.

i got nothing else to do this weekend, so i'll try that first, as i can only mix that home made lube, then try that shortly there after.

i'll post back tomorrow (saturday the 5th) with results.

 

[Old_Me]

update......

ok guys, as per advice from you and another reloader at the store, i re-adjusted the powder drop, by raising it a bit.

it worked, much smoother getting that new Starline brass to get it's powder...

however...

when i tried a 1st fired casing..??

instead of the normal 4.0 charge..??

i get 1.2, charge...!!

the Starline Brass is about 2 thousands of an inch taller.

so, i just ain't gonna go thru the BS of re-adjusting every time i reload 45 ACP.

that means i'd have to seperate the new brass from the "older".....???

uhhh...no, not on my shift.

i'm going to check the prices for a Lee 9mm shell plate, and dedicate the Lee to only 9mm, since from what i can see, a Lee Classic shell plate will fit the Pro 4000.

kinda sucks, how the DIllon can handle all of this with aplomb, and the Lee will need to be re-adjusted....

not gonna happen.........

 

[youngolddude]

Starline is a touch thicker.
I run mixed brass with no ill effects on my Dillon. I can't comprehend how a different case length would make that drastic of a powder difference. Belling, sure, but powder?

 

[jumpinjoe]

Starline is a touch thicker.
I run mixed brass with no ill effects on my Dillon. I can't comprehend how a different case length would make that drastic of a powder difference. Belling, sure, but powder?

I've got to agree with youngolddude here, except that I run mixed brass on my "Lee" equipment with no issues. I'm not using the 'Pro 4000' but the press used makes no difference in the issue at hand since the powder measure and 'powder through expanding' die is the same regardless of the press. If I am correct in that you're using the 'Auto Drum' powder measure, there has to be something we're missing. The 'Auto Drum' is about the simplest, most infallible powder measure on the market.

I also agree that I don't see how a minor difference in case length would make any difference in the charge dropped .... in the final analysis all the case does is open the powder measure to release the powder charge volume that the user has set it for.

With all due respect Old_Me, I've got to think we're overlooking something really simple here.

 

[Old_Me]

Starline is a touch thicker.
I run mixed brass with no ill effects on my Dillon. I can't comprehend how a different case length would make that drastic of a powder difference. Belling, sure, but powder?

i know.

i tried several times to get the powder drop/belling for the Starline, then try the "older" brass....no go.......

like i said, the store owner who mass produces reloads, on several Dillon 1100's, and a another buddy of mine that helps out there, who owns several Lee as well as other brands (except Dillon) cannot comprehend this either.

and i am talking guys with decades of reloading experience as well too.


but i am a witness to all of this.

i have a 9mm set up of dies for the DIllon in a tool head.

i wish to not take them out.

now i am between a rock and hard place.

box up the Lee, and chuck it to oblivion, or buy another set of Lee 9mm dies, specifically for that Lee, at yet another cost of $60 + shipping.

and a new 9mm shell plate, from LEE, is $25 +shipping, other places wanted close to $30 for the plate.

i might just get another set of 9mm dies, and suck up this farce, and live with it.

i simply will not re-adjust the Lee over and over again, especially now if i have to separate the Starline Brass and all the other name brand brass..??

bad enough, i have to make sure i do not mix SPP with LPP, but at the very least, no readjustments have to be made.

one last alternative..??

chuck the Lee, and get another 550c.......

it's only a credit card..........right..........???

 

[Old_Me]

I've got to agree with youngolddude here, except that I run mixed brass on my "Lee" equipment with no issues. I'm not using the 'Pro 4000' but the press used makes no difference in the issue at hand since the powder measure and 'powder through expanding' die is the same regardless of the press. If I am correct in that you're using the 'Auto Drum' powder measure, there has to be something we're missing. The 'Auto Drum' is about the simplest, most infallible powder measure on the market.

I also agree that I don't see how a minor difference in case length would make any difference in the charge dropped .... in the final analysis all the case does is open the powder measure to release the powder charge volume that the user has set it for.

With all due respect Old_Me, I've got to think we're overlooking something really simple here.

i hope so, i am beat to hell right now........

i need a nap, shower and time to shave my hairy back.....

ain't got no mo' time for messing with that insipid Lee......

 

[jumpinjoe]

The further we go on this, and the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced of the following ......................

Back a few posts ago I added this note ...... "NOTE: If the table is not lifting at the 1st die, the sizer die, but is lifting at the 2nd die, the 'powder through expander' die, there has to be something out a whack either with that die or adjustment of that die. Die #2 doesn't have nearly enough drag to cause the table to lift, and especially when compared to the 1st die. The problem may also be in the powder measure itself. Double check all the mechanisms on the "Auto Drum" measure which is the one I think you're using." I'll add here that in retrospect I would consider the 'Auto Drum' measure as a very distant possibility since it's only action is based on the case rising and dropping from the #2 die.

I've got to stand by that assertion because there is such a drastic difference in the amount of drag at the 1st die (sizer die) as compared to the 2nd one (powder through expanding). I hate you feel this way about the "Lee" equipment you've got when you say "kinda sucks, how the DIllon can handle all of this with aplomb, and the Lee will need to be re-adjusted...." but I will assure you the "Lee" will do anything the "Dillon" will do without all the aggravation you're seeing. They are both quality pieces, each with a loyal following in their own right. And when you consider the thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of "Lee" presses in use, if they were consistent with the issues you're having, there would be thousands (maybe 100's of 1,000's) of posts on various forums and other places to indicate that.

I know we're not supposed to buy/sell here on the forum, so I won't go there ..... but I will say to you that if you are indeed inclined to (in your words) "box up the Lee, and chuck it to oblivion", I'll provide you with the address of 'Oblivion' and pay the shipping.

 

[jumpinjoe]

Just an afterthought here Old_Me, can you take a few pictures of the "Lee" setup from several angles and post them. Maybe somebody will notice something out of whack, or maybe just not quite right with it. Do you know if the guy you bought all that equipment from had been using the "Lee" press in the recent past before you bought it or had it been boxed up for a long while? Anything else out of the ordinary you can think of that might help?

 

[Old_Me]

Just an afterthought here Old_Me, can you take a few pictures of the "Lee" setup from several angles and post them. Maybe somebody will notice something out of whack, or maybe just not quite right with it. Do you know if the guy you bought all that equipment from had been using the "Lee" press in the recent past before you bought it or had it been boxed up for a long while? Anything else out of the ordinary you can think of that might help?

please go back, and refer to where i said, i got the Lee to work with the starline, and drop the required 4.0 charge..

but when i went to try a first fired casing, all it would drop is maybe 1.3-1.4..????

the Lee was bought new, in the box, from Midway. set up from the factory for 45 ACP.

it's the DIllon that was bought.."new, in box, never used" from the RSO



and i dunno, how can 1800 first fired brass casings cycle thru the Lee, then when i try the very first Starline....case...

the powder drop gets stuck in it...???....then maybe 20 more, before i switched over to the Dillon, to complete 1 box..???

the de-capper die, the first "acted" normal......

and "oblivion to me has several meanings, when i get ticked off...

1) pack it, and bury it in the spare room

2) take a sawz-all to it......seriously, i have done that a few times.......when i really get ticked

3) bury it deep in the trash can, on trash night.

i'll "monkey with it" sunday (tomorrow) ..........then decide it's fate.

with the side note, i am considering just buying a set of 9mm dies, and a shell plate, as mentioned earlier.

that way, it'll most likely not see any duty for months, since 9mm is getting cheaper.