Ruger-Marlins vs. Remington-Marlins (i.e. Remlins)

[Pitdogg2]

Cerburus/Freedom Group if I'm not mistaking was part of many education groups retirement plans and after Sandy Hook many of those plans were forced to divest from it. There may have been others (arms corps) in the retirement groups and many were divested. Many of these conglomerates bought other companies for the sole purpose to take them out of competition for other companies under their umbrella. That is how I seen it.

 

[Keystone19250]

Cerburus/Freedom Group if I'm not mistaking was part of many education groups retirement plans and after Sandy Hook many of those plans were forced to divest from it. There may have been others (arms corps) in the retirement groups and many were divested. Many of these conglomerates bought other companies for the sole purpose to take them out of competition for other companies under their umbrella. That is how I seen it.

Good point. Sandy Hook got many firearms conglomerates to run for cover and dump there holdings to prevent being caught up in lawsuits.

 

[Talyn]

Talyn some of what you said I agree with when it comes to how Cerberus managed Remington during the transition of Marlin to Remington ownership but you are flat out wrong stating that Marlin had QC issues or was behind in modern manufacturing. I worked for Marlin for 15 years and was front and center during the takeover and personally watched as Remington set Marlin back years both in production and quality control by making changes that made absolutely no sense and spent money to just spend money that created production back logs and no quality control whatsoever, they also LIED on a daily basis on their intention to keep Marlin in North Haven CT while they were working behind the scenes with the Town of N.H. To receive millions of dollars in tax credits to move Marlin to there campus in Iliad NY. I had friends that were part of that move and heard reports of how that campus was a DUMP and had no modern infrastructure to handle manufacturing. I have not been following the current climat surrounding Remingtons bankruptcy and yes if Marlin is purchased by anyone there will be some transitional growing pains but anyone will be better then Remington Arms. As far as the man who worked for Remington and managed the take over I met him many times and everyone including myself was totally amazed at how ignorant he was in making firearms, his decisions and mandates on how we were to work made absolutely no sense whatsoever, it was almost like he wanted the company to fail. I wouldn’t trust him to run a company that made garden hoses.

I never said Marlin had QC issues "before" the take-over. But, I did see reports that after the take-over and move to Iliad the manufacturing process had to be recreated, and new employees had to be trained since some of the long-time CT Marlin employees didn't follow the company move. Reconstructing the manufacturing process & training new employees resulted in the post-takeover QC issues that Marlin in Illiad had to overcome, which I believe they did/have.

Reports (take them or leave them)

2014

2018

Both Marlin & Remington continue to get bad internet press/comments regarding their QC and product line. I stated earlier that I haven't seen that in my purchases, but admit I personally examined every Marlin & Remington rifles I've bought over the last 10 years based on QC chatter.

Some folks seem bent on doing some of the Anti's business by slamming companies that they've had an issue with, whether minor or more serious. nd then there's the states that shut down the firearms businesses during this Covid19 experience.

It's clear there there were a lot of bad feelings (that continue) about the Cerberus/Remington/Marlin take-over. I'm not here to defend Cerberus, nor the admin. minions that Cerberus hired since it sounds like the guy you mentioned (is his name Hal, Charlie, Jim, John or Teddy?) was just looking to please upper mgt. while Remington/Marlin QC (post move) went down the tubes.

But the reports seem to state that the new Marlin ops where kept pretty separate from Remington, and it seems to me that Marlin has come out better than Remington has. IMO the move to Ruger will be a better one, than the Remington firearms line which isn't even mentioned by name in the Ch.11 documents. What happens there will be interesting.

Regards,

BTW - My favorite Marlin is my 39A I bought at a JC Penny's in Oregon in the late 70's.

 

[Talyn]

Some informative vids.

 

[Keystone19250]

I never said Marlin had QC issues "before" the take-over. But, I did see reports that after the take-over and move to Iliad the manufacturing process had to be recreated, and new employees had to be trained since some of the long-time CT Marlin employees didn't follow the company move. Reconstructing the manufacturing process & training new employees resulted in the post-takeover QC issues that Marlin in Illiad had to overcome, which I believe they did/have.

Reports (take them or leave them)

2014

2018

Both Marlin & Remington continue to get bad internet press/comments regarding their QC and product line. I stated earlier that I haven't seen that in my purchases, but admit I personally examined every Marlin & Remington rifles I've bought over the last 10 years based on QC chatter.

Some folks seem bent on doing some of the Anti's business by slamming companies that they've had an issue with, whether minor or more serious. nd then there's the states that shut down the firearms businesses during this Covid19 experience.

It's clear there there were a lot of bad feelings (that continue) about the Cerberus/Remington/Marlin take-over. I'm not here to defend Cerberus, nor the admin. minions that Cerberus hired since it sounds like the guy you mentioned (is his name Hal, Charlie, Jim, John or Teddy?) was just looking to please upper mgt. while Remington/Marlin QC (post move) went down the tubes.

But the reports seem to state that the new Marlin ops where kept pretty separate from Remington, and it seems to me that Marlin has come out better than Remington has. IMO the move to Ruger will be a better one, than the Remington firearms line which isn't even mentioned by name in the Ch.11 documents. What happens there will be interesting.

Regards,

BTW - My favorite Marlin is my 39A I bought at a JC Penny's in Oregon in the late 70's.

I will tell you that Remington asked every Marlin employee to move to NY but also said they would NOT assist in there moves financially and we were also told our pay would be cut to minimum wage.
Also a bit of trivia Remington could not figure out how to make the model 39 lever gun and initially discontinued that model.

 

[Keystone19250]

To those that watched the factory tour video the section on how the lever gun stocks were made were the machines I ran for the first 7 years I worked for Marlin. My last 8 years were running two KOMO CNC machining centers cutting the action cuts in the bolt action gun stocks. Those stocks would then get a but pad installed and go into the same machines for outside sanding of the stock profile.

 

[Talyn]

I understand and respect your career time with "old" Marlin. I also understand yours and former employees feelings towards what went down over 10 years ago, and how those feelings are still very real.

I know folks that still have hard feeling about the steel mills closing in the mid-late 70's where I grew up back east.

What I take offense to are your allegations that I stated that "old" Marlin had QC issues. Like I said before I never said that.

Also, when you stated I was "flat wrong" that there are/were reports of the issues with "old" Marlin, and that changes had to be made after the move to re-start production. I have provided the reports and I'll leave it at that.

In addition to the links to the previous couple articles & the two vids here's a couple more for general consumption.

The Rise, Fall, and Rise of Marlin

New Marlin Lever Actions

All are from varied sources who had their own concerns about what went down. There are common points made between them. In all of these articles/reports anyone can take them or leave them.

IMO, if "old" Marlin had continued to produce products as they did in the 2007 vid they wouldn't still be in business. A lot of hand work is not very cost effective nowadays, unless you go with custom work on lever guns like Doug Turnbull does.

I think coming under Ruger's wing is good for both Marlin & Ruger. We'll se what the future brings for "new" Marlin.

My .02

 

[Talyn]

To those that watched the factory tour video the section on how the lever gun stocks were made were the machines I ran for the first 7 years I worked for Marlin. My last 8 years were running two KOMO CNC machining centers cutting the action cuts in the bolt action gun stocks. Those stocks would then get a but pad installed and go into the same machines for outside sanding of the stock profile. View attachment 10544View attachment 10545View attachment 10546

Nice pics.

 

[Talyn]

Also a bit of trivia Remington could not figure out how to make the model 39 lever gun and initially discontinued that model.

I hope that the "new" Marlin can bring the 39A back to being a regular production rifle, vs. custom as it is now, with Ruger's help.

Just hope folks don't start calling Marlins..."Ruglins" or Marlgers" now. Maybe I should copyright those two?

 

[Keystone19250]

I understand and respect your career time with "old" Marlin. I also understand yours and former employees feelings towards what went down over 10 years ago, and how those feelings are still very real.

I know folks that still have hard feeling about the steel mills closing in the mid-late 70's where I grew up back east.

What I take offense to are your allegations that I stated that "old" Marlin had QC issues. Like I said before I never said that.

Also, when you stated I was "flat wrong" that there are/were reports of the issues with "old" Marlin, and that changes had to be made after the move to re-start production. I have provided the reports and I'll leave it at that.

In addition to the links to the previous couple articles & the two vids here's a couple more for general consumption.

The Rise, Fall, and Rise of Marlin

New Marlin Lever Actions

All are from varied sources who had their own concerns about what went down. There are common points made between them. In all of these articles/reports anyone can take them or leave them.

IMO, if "old" Marlin had continued to produce products as they did in the 2007 vid they wouldn't still be in business. A lot of hand work is not very cost effective nowadays, unless you go with custom work on lever guns like Doug Turnbull does.

I think coming under Ruger's wing is good for both Marlin & Ruger. We'll se what the future brings for "new" Marlin.

My .02

I hope that the "new" Marlin can bring the 39A back to being a regular production rifle, vs. custom as it is now, with Ruger's help.

Just hope folks don't start calling Marlins..."Ruglins" or Marlgers" now. Maybe I should copyright those two?

Thank you for the explanation on your original QC comment, yes the feelings are still raw and will probably always be so. My apologies for being so harsh.
based on the construction of the model 39 receiver it will probably always have some custom fitting involved in its production. Although I don’t know much about Ruger from what I’ve read is they are passionate about the quality of there firearms so if that takeover of the Marlin brand works out then I see positive things for both the Ruger name and Marlin brand.

 

[Talyn]

Thank you for the explanation on your original QC comment, yes the feelings are still raw and will probably always be so. My apologies for being so harsh.
based on the construction of the model 39 receiver it will probably always have some custom fitting involved in its production. Although I don’t know much about Ruger from what I’ve read is they are passionate about the quality of there firearms so if that takeover of the Marlin brand works out then I see positive things for both the Ruger name and Marlin brand.

Understand and accept.

Cheers