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Saint Victor .308 competition

@KillerFord1977
I appreciate your POV so much another user came asking which one to choose at my AR15.COM thread so I reference your explanation and this thread. (Bottom page 3.)
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/...8-AR-10-type-rifle-for-the-money-/45-521591/?

I really like the way you laid it down. You've shown me It doesn't matter how it's built if you don't need the extra B.S.! Both guns are solid and great buys. It comes down to whichever best suits your needs! Good Post OP! I'm glad we resurrected it. I learned a great deal from your last post!
 
GLD1980 said:
Sorry group I'm like a big kid and this thread needed pics! Now we got them coming in let's keep the stories coming! Great Pics!
@Talyn
Let's see that PA-10!
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Talyn said:
For my AR10 purchase I looked at several of the mainstream options, including SA & Sig, but went with a PSA PA10 for the following reasons.

1) Neither Sig nor SA offered an 18" or 20" barrel length, which for my longer-range AOPs the additional velocity is a factor. For my area a 16" barrel neuters the .308 too much. I went with an 18 although I wanted a 20 but that length wasn't available from PSA until recently.

2) I felt that PSA offered a more desirable ss fluted barrel which neither Sig nor SA did.

3) I liked the handguard on the PSA much better than either Sig or SA.

4) I like a real good trigger. PSA offered the PA10 with Geissele Super Semi-Automatic Enhamced Trigger (SSA-E) (a $240 trigger) that neither SA nor Sig did, at my purchase price which was well below what either SA or Sig does. This was a "major" plus compare to the other two.

5) I think PSA is under-rated, but they put alot of effort into their product line & customer service. Since there is no mil-spec for any AR10 brand I felt the PSA PA10 provided me with more value than the Sig or SA. While there are higher-end AR10 brand/models I think the PA10 is a good middle-market rifle and it shoots real well.

We all know likes & dislaikes are very individual, and any AR10 being offered is the same.

BTW, no matter which brand/mode out there I knew I'd have to upgrade any of them with the features I have come to want on an AR-type platform.

My .02

​

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Actually @Talyn, this article in Pew Pew Tactical, rates the PA-10 #5 on their list of top AR10s. So from the author’s viewpoint (and these lists are all subjective), he concurs that PSA makes a decent AR10.


www.pewpewtactical.com

6 Best AR-10s: Complete Buyer's Guide

The AR-10 is a grownup version of the AR-15. It's bigger, meaner, and louder. We'll show you the best AR-10s out there across all budgets.
www.pewpewtactical.com www.pewpewtactical.com
 
BET7 said:
Actually @Talyn, this article in Pew Pew Tactical, rates the PA-10 #5 on their list of top AR10s. So from the author’s viewpoint (and these lists are all subjective), he concurs that PSA makes a decent AR10.


www.pewpewtactical.com

6 Best AR-10s: Complete Buyer's Guide

The AR-10 is a grownup version of the AR-15. It's bigger, meaner, and louder. We'll show you the best AR-10s out there across all budgets.
www.pewpewtactical.com www.pewpewtactical.com
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@BET7

Thanks for the article. Yes, the PA10 consistently ranks well on various AR10 lists that's why I looked at their specs when comparing all the brands in the mid-price/feature range.

I think POF, LMT and the LWRCI REPR Mk.II make/are the higher-end AR10's (I really wanted either the POF/REPR but like the SA & Sigs they either didn't offer the barrel lengths (POF) I wanted, or fit into my budget (REPR).

I wanted to build up an Aero but all their stuff was unobtainable, so after all me research I went with the PA10 when the model I wanted (before the 20" recently became available) with the Geissele SSA-E trigger popped up on their site.

Some lists consider the PSA PA10 and "entry-level" AR10 but I disagree since I think its right in the same mid-range group as Sigs and SA's, although those two brands didn't offer anything that met my needs/requirements. In fact, the PA10 mode I picked up exceeded my needs vs. the SA and Sig models.

I typically don't go the brand-favorite route but spend my $$ on what meets my operational needs and budget.

My .02
 
GLD1980 said:
Your POV and perspective is solid. Your rifle is sweet, but the SIG doesn't cost more. It may be found now inflated due to COVID-19 but your gun costs more. I'm sure based on your experiences and successes with it to you it's the better gun. I can respect that. Beautiful gun and great rewards it brings you. Good post!
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When I originally posted over a year ago, Sig 716 was several hundred dollars more. May not be the case now in 2021
 
ddeuce22 said:
Took the .308 out today. More blown primers and rounds jamming. I'm so ****ing fed up. Do yourself a favor and dont buy the SV in .308. Get a PSA or something else. This is beyond ****ing ridiculous.
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What type of checks have you conducted to identify the problem?

What type of ammo are you using?

Have you made any gas block adjustments?

Have you contacted Springfield Armory?

A separate thread to trouble shoot where you are the OP exists, so I don't believe you needed to bring the drama here advising people not to buy the platform.
Have you contributed to the solution or do you just want to vent your case of the **** its on this thread?
 
GLD1980 said:
What type of checks have you conducted to identify the problem?

What type of ammo are you using?

Have you made any gas block adjustments?

Have you contacted Springfield Armory?

A separate thread to trouble shoot where you are the OP exists, so I don't believe you needed to bring the drama here advising people not to buy the platform.
Have you contributed to the solution or do you just want to vent your case of the **** its on this thread?
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That thread already exists and dates back to February. You can catch up on the history there if you are so inclined.
SA has already serviced this rifle twice prior to today.

I vented there already, although you are right. Didn't mean to hi-jack your thread. Definitely just frustrated. Sorry.
 
ddeuce22 said:
That thread already exists and dates back to February. You can catch up on the history there if you are so inclined.
SA has already serviced this rifle twice prior to today.

I vented there already, although you are right. Didn't mean to hi-jack your thread. Definitely just frustrated. Sorry.
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Not my thread you are more than excused but if they've had a few chances to remedy and haven't then I would respectfully ask them to replace your bad sample. You deserve a functioning rifle, it's what you paid for but don't let that one bad apple tarnish the brand. Demand excellence from Springfield Armory and they will give it I'm sure.
 
I have two AR pattern .308 builds, an Aero Precision LR-.308 and a Matrix Arms SR-.308 patterned rifles.

The Aero is in the picture below and it runs flawlessly. The picture is a few months old now and I have since changed out the muzzle device and rear sight. I will post a picture of the Matrix Arms .308 later this week.

I'll be that guy...😜
The name AR-10 is trademarked by ArmaLite and most AR-.308 variants are based on either the the DPMS LR-.308 or ArmaLite SR-.308 receivers which a is easily identified by the cut at the back of the receivers with ArmaLite style having a hard slant cut and DPMS style have a more rounded cut similar to an AR-15.

AR-.308 builds can get really tricky finding all the compatible parts needed to complete your build.


Screenshot_20210702-230301_Photos.jpg
 
GLD1980 said:
@KillerFord1977

I own a Saint Edge Pistol, an M1A SOCOM16 and I just bought a Victor PDW. Aside from the PDW, and only because I haven't got it or shot it yet, I trust them with my life and the lives of those close to me. Taking them through combat and the abuse associated with Infantry Life is an entirely different animal and that is what the SIG 716I is designed to do. The SIG's 716I is heavier because it is built up, in order to survive years of troop abuse and actual combat. The rifle doesn't only need to be good, it needs to be tough and reliable, and do it for years to follow. At the time you wrote this thread India had already placed its order for the first 72,400 units to issue front line Infantry Soldiers along the Line of Control (LOC) with Pakistan and China. If you look up the LOC you'll find its an interesting place for sure!
So here's a rough timeline; India's original order was placed in February 2019. India received the first 10,000 units from SIG in December 2019. The Springfield Armory Saint Victor .308 was announced 2 months after SIG had secured the sale with India in April 2019. When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. Just shy of 4 months after you OP'd this thread in July 2020, India doubled down and ordered their second batch of 72,000+ units. I wonder if @xdman can reach out to Springfield Armory to see if they've surpassed 144,000 units yet? So what competition are you claiming was won? The civilian market sales category?
Although this thread is entertaining, if Springfield had submitted a rifle for T&E it obviously wasn't selected. So what competition did the Saint .308 actually win? Respectfully the Saint Victor .308 is probably not the better gun. It is the lighter gun by 1.39lbs which is probably the weight difference between a barrel meant for business and a pencil barrel. It is the more expensive gun (SA$1499 vs SIG $1299) based off MSRP's, but is it really the better gun? I personally think the Saint Victor .308's are amazing guns, but I do not support your claim and believe it is a better gun than the SIG 716I Tread.
If you believe the Saint .308 is the better gun, I'll be your huckleberry! Please back your entries with some facts and let's bring this thread back to life.
Let's also see some of your amazing Saint Victor's. They are certainly amazing guns.
Here's my SIG 716I Tread
View attachment 19230
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Great looking rifle, and interesting post @GLD1980. I looked up reviews on the Sig 716i, and found the Military Arms Channel (MAC) discussion on this rifle and India's procurement of it (unfortunately, I can't get the link to copy in this post, (similar to other posters having problems doing the same on other threads)). I also watched their comparison of the 716i Vs the POF Revolution (which costs twice as much as the 716i which also included a Sig Sierra 3 BDX scope and rangefinder that came with the 716i rifle).
Interestingly, I went to a local Sig dealer LGS looking for a Sig MPX K 9mm (On bucket list, but no such luck), and instead walked away with the Sig 716i Tread 308 (last one they had). I wouldn't have mind a SA Victor 308 (having already the Saint AR15 and Saint Victor 300 Blk pistol, (plus many more of their firearms)), but I'm also considering a SA M1A SOCOM 16 for a future purchase, so I decided to snap up the last Sig Tread rifle in the store.
 
BET7 said:
Great looking rifle, and interesting post @GLD1980. I looked up reviews on the Sig 716i, and found the Military Arms Channel (MAC) discussion on this rifle and India's procurement of it (unfortunately, I can't get the link to copy in this post, (similar to other posters having problems doing the same on other threads)). I also watched their comparison of the 716i Vs the POF Revolution (which costs twice as much as the 716i which also included a Sig Sierra 3 BDX scope and rangefinder that came with the 716i rifle).
Interestingly, I went to a local Sig dealer LGS looking for a Sig MPX K 9mm (On bucket list, but no such luck), and instead walked away with the Sig 716i Tread 308 (last one they had). I wouldn't have mind a SA Victor 308 (having already the Saint AR15 and Saint Victor 300 Blk pistol, (plus many more of their firearms)), but I'm also considering a SA M1A SOCOM 16 for a future purchase, so I decided to snap up the last Sig Tread rifle in the store.
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Congratulations and please post your thoughts. Both Springfield and SIG are doing great things and it seems many of us will continue spending money on both of them.
 
GLD1980 said:
Taking them through combat and the abuse associated with Infantry Life is an entirely different animal and that is what the SIG 716I is designed to do. The SIG's 716I is heavier because it is built up, in order to survive years of troop abuse and actual combat. The rifle doesn't only need to be good, it needs to be tough and reliable, and do it for years to follow. At the time you wrote this thread India had already placed its order for the first 72,400 units to issue front line Infantry Soldiers along the Line of Control (LOC) with Pakistan and China.
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I have to wonder after Remington offered a 32 million dollar settlement how this is going to work out for other manufacturers of AR rifles that have also "marketed rifles by extolling the militaristic qualities of the rifle and reinforcing the image of a combat weapon?" Lawyers for the plaintiff have contended that Remington's marketing techniques are in violation of a Connecticut law that prevents deceptive marketing practices. Other companies like Colt/CZ, FN, and
H & K may find themselves in the same boat with Remington if this settlement stands. Offering rifles that are advertised as built to military specs may end up being a poor marketing move. If other suits go forward on the lines of the Connecticut case it will be interesting to see who's still standing after all is said and done.
 
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