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Self Defense ammo comparison

I’d state that getting shot by any round would suck, and suck bad. Never happened to me thank goodness, but I’m sure those military or otherwise who have been shot are not happy regardless of caliber.

I would assume shock factory and trauma of any round would do a number on a person.

wasnt a favorite of the mob a .22 or .32 to the back of the head to rattle around and not make a mess ???
 
KillerFord1977 said:
I’d state that getting shot by any round would suck, and suck bad. Never happened to me thank goodness, but I’m sure those military or otherwise who have been shot are not happy regardless of caliber.

I would assume shock factory and trauma of any round would do a number on a person.

wasnt a favorite of the mob a .22 or .32 to the back of the head to rattle around and not make a mess ???
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Yes, it will. And you know why?

Because we are rational beings, and know that getting shot with anything is going to be very, very detrimental to our lifestyle.

But.

There are people out there that don’t care what effect it will have on their lifestyle; and others that may not notice the hit, due to a number of possible factors (physiological, pharmaceutical, psychological bring just a few). That’s why bullet performance does matter...you need to disrupt vital structure and do enough physical damage to make their system shut down.

2 guaranteed ways to do this—a CNS hit—hitting the parts of the brain/spinal cord that control the body—or exsanguimation—aka bleed out, or shock. Both require bullets that will get deep in the body, and wreck a lot of stuff as it passes through...and that’s where the premium JHP’s have a proven track record of performance.

As far as the mob using sub caliber bullets...most of those shots were delivered at point-blank range into the back of the head of a defenseless and/or unsuspecting victim...really not the same as
a defensive shoot.
 
HansGruber said:
Yes, it will. And you know why?

Because we are rational beings, and know that getting shot with anything is going to be very, very detrimental to our lifestyle.

But.

There are people out there that don’t care what effect it will have on their lifestyle; and others that may not notice the hit, due to a number of possible factors (physiological, pharmaceutical, psychological bring just a few). That’s why bullet performance does matter...you need to disrupt vital structure and do enough physical damage to make their system shut down.

2 guaranteed ways to do this—a CNS hit—hitting the parts of the brain/spinal cord that control the body—or exsanguimation—aka bleed out, or shock. Both require bullets that will get deep in the body, and wreck a lot of stuff as it passes through...and that’s where the premium JHP’s have a proven track record of performance.

As far as the mob using sub caliber bullets...most of those shots were delivered at point-blank range into the back of the head of a defenseless and/or unsuspecting victim...really not the same as
a defensive shoot.
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Agree
We have all seen the videos of officers hitting a person multiple times and threat continues.

i’m just pointing out that regardless, it will not be pleasant
 
KillerFord1977 said:
Agree
We have all seen the videos of officers hitting a person multiple times and threat continues.

i’m just pointing out that regardless, it will not be pleasant
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More than likely, not solid hits...

Or, an “outlier”...when of those statistical anomalies that happen from time to time...any one of the shots SHOULD have dropped the target, but the continue...adrenaline can do strange things.

Anyone who's hunted long enough will often see something similar—a shot that looks good, but the deer (or whatever) still runs off for quite a distance; when found and cleaned, the heart is wiped or a similar, what should have been immediately fatal wound is discovered..,but that deer didn’t know it yet.
 
@HansGruber said some key stuff that I assume most know. Hits count. Hits with a 45acp over a 22mag is a better option, if you can accurately make hits with a 45acp. Adrenalin is a heck of a drug. I remember Glaser rounds and other “boutique” rounds, I try not to fall into those traps, (G2 RIP) I like what I have seen and read on the the Hunter/Defender/Penetrator rounds. I carry out in the woods a lot, I also carry Gold Dots on other occasions. Here is a pretty neat article on the subject at hand though. https://gunnewsdaily.com/best-9mm-ammo/
 
HansGruber said:
More than likely, not solid hits...

Or, an “outlier”...when of those statistical anomalies that happen from time to time...any one of the shots SHOULD have dropped the target, but the continue...adrenaline can do strange things.

Anyone who's hunted long enough will often see something similar—a shot that looks good, but the deer (or whatever) still runs off for quite a distance; when found and cleaned, the heart is wiped or a similar, what should have been immediately fatal wound is discovered..,but that deer didn’t know it yet.
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Like this .. its an exit wound
(PC scrubbed)
Hit with a .270 mag in vitals by my son and ran 40 yards 😳😳
(Hope its not too over the top for pc police)
E52F634B-CFEC-4F35-A41F-3F0E340136E4.jpeg
 
HansGruber said:
So...this is a trope that comes up often in caliber discussions.

To be honest—I've never understood this line of reasoning.

All things being equal, and assuming I’m doing my part as the shooter—that is, not spraying & praying, waiting until my sights are on target, and having proper grip & trigger press...

What's going to make me miss with the 10mm over the .380?

The way I see it...if you’ve got bad habits on the trigger, it doesn’t matter what caliber you’re shooting...those bad habits are there.
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My comment was in response to Troy’s {“Seems to me that where you put them,is at least as important,as what you are putting in them.”} and was not part of the trope you mention. I was agreeing with him (and you) that Shot placement is key and it doesn’t matter what you’re shooting (of widely used SD calibers). If you miss center mass you miss, having a 10mm (or 380) won’t help the situation.
 
Here's the thing. There is no doubt that shot placement is key and one or a pair of well placed shots to the center of mass will probably do the job regardless of whether it's a 9mm or a .44 magnum. So you should definitely carry the gun you are most comfortable with and shoot the best with. That said, in most plausible self defense situations you are unlikely to have the time or the distance from your attacker to use your sights properly, if at all. So it is imperative that you train for this situation. For me personally, I train mostly with .45s and .40s. It's what I'm comfortable with and what I shoot best with. The upside is that if I am in a position in which I am shooting weak side or compromised in some way or for some reason I **** up and fail to put two in the chest or head, that .45 is going to leave a big fat hole that leaks more blood.


Does that mean bigger is always better? No. Does it mean that I am more likely to stop a threat, with a poorly placed shot if I am carrying a .45? Maybe.
 
Bassbob said:
Here's the thing. There is no doubt that shot placement is key and one or a pair of well placed shots to the center of mass will probably do the job regardless of whether it's a 9mm or a .44 magnum. So you should definitely carry the gun you are most comfortable with and shoot the best with. That said, in most plausible self defense situations you are unlikely to have the time or the distance from your attacker to use your sights properly, if at all. So it is imperative that you train for this situation. For me personally, I train mostly with .45s and .40s. It's what I'm comfortable with and what I shoot best with. The upside is that if I am in a position in which I am shooting weak side or compromised in some way or for some reason I **** up and fail to put two in the chest or head, that .45 is going to leave a big fat hole that leaks more blood.


Does that mean bigger is always better? No. Does it mean that I am more likely to stop a threat, with a poorly placed shot if I am carrying a .45? Maybe.
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Completely agree; when it comes to less-than-optimal hits, a larger caliber has an edge.

And on another point...practicing with your carry ammo from time to time is also a good idea; keeps fresh ammo in the weapon, and keeps you familiar with any differences in recoil or POI.
 
HansGruber said:
Completely agree; when it comes to less-than-optimal hits, a larger caliber has an edge.

And on another point...practicing with your carry ammo from time to time is also a good idea; keeps fresh ammo in the weapon, and keeps you familiar with any differences in recoil or POI.
Click to expand...


For sure. About every 6 months or so I shoot my carry ammo and reload with "Fresh" ammo.
 
Bassbob said:
Here's the thing. There is no doubt that shot placement is key and one or a pair of well placed shots to the center of mass will probably do the job regardless of whether it's a 9mm or a .44 magnum. So you should definitely carry the gun you are most comfortable with and shoot the best with. That said, in most plausible self defense situations you are unlikely to have the time or the distance from your attacker to use your sights properly, if at all. So it is imperative that you train for this situation. For me personally, I train mostly with .45s and .40s. It's what I'm comfortable with and what I shoot best with. The upside is that if I am in a position in which I am shooting weak side or compromised in some way or for some reason I **** up and fail to put two in the chest or head, that .45 is going to leave a big fat hole that leaks more blood.


Does that mean bigger is always better? No. Does it mean that I am more likely to stop a threat, with a poorly placed shot if I am carrying a .45? Maybe.
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Agreed... Also, that's why I always carry double stack pistols. Shot placement may not be on the 1st round with moving Target while I'm moving. So I try to keep as many rounds in my pistol as possible. And besides criminals usually don't travel alone to commit crimes. So the more ammo the better.
 
HansGruber said:
Completely agree; when it comes to less-than-optimal hits, a larger caliber has an edge.

And on another point...practicing with your carry ammo from time to time is also a good idea; keeps fresh ammo in the weapon, and keeps you familiar with any differences in recoil or POI.
Click to expand...
Good point on SD ammo. It’s one of the reasons I tend to buy American Eagle 124fmj bulk for practice. It’s a couple of cents more per round than the cheapo stuff but it really closely mimics it’s parent round the HST 124 (plus they’re cleaner). If I mix load both I can’t tell a difference. Also the reason I haven’t gone up to the micro HST 150’s, there’s no Federal/AmEagle matching fmj round for them.
But, I definitely cycle the SD rounds every 6 mo or so regardless.
 
OkiePewPew said:
Good point on SD ammo. It’s one of the reasons I tend to buy American Eagle 124fmj bulk for practice. It’s a couple of cents more per round than the cheapo stuff but it really closely mimics it’s parent round the HST 124 (plus they’re cleaner). If I mix load both I can’t tell a difference. Also the reason I haven’t gone up to the micro HST 150’s, there’s no Federal/AmEagle matching fmj round for them.
But, I definitely cycle the SD rounds every 6 mo or so regardless.
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I've seen some gel tests of the 150 gr HST and I am not im ressed.
 
Bassbob said:
Here's the thing. There is no doubt that shot placement is key and one or a pair of well placed shots to the center of mass will probably do the job regardless of whether it's a 9mm or a .44 magnum. So you should definitely carry the gun you are most comfortable with and shoot the best with. That said, in most plausible self defense situations you are unlikely to have the time or the distance from your attacker to use your sights properly, if at all. So it is imperative that you train for this situation. For me personally, I train mostly with .45s and .40s. It's what I'm comfortable with and what I shoot best with. The upside is that if I am in a position in which I am shooting weak side or compromised in some way or for some reason I **** up and fail to put two in the chest or head, that .45 is going to leave a big fat hole that leaks more blood.


Does that mean bigger is always better? No. Does it mean that I am more likely to stop a threat, with a poorly placed shot if I am carrying a .45? Maybe.
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I thought .40 was dead??..........J/K
 
Bassbob said:
Well, you know. .32 and .25 are pretty dead too. You can still get ammo for them pretty easily though. Price is higher than it should be, but look at .380. It's a popular caliber and getting more popular every day. .380 ammo is ridiculously priced. Supply and demand they say. Whatever...
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It is expensive to shoot .380, your right. Price you pay to get as compact as possible, excluding NAA 22 variants. I was making reference to the .40 cal discussion in the other thread. I do like that round, it is a good round.
 
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