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Self-Defense and the Law: Is Shooting Long-Distance in Defense Defensible in Court?

The problem with this is that we want it to be black and white; easy decision. That’s The Bad Guy; shoot ‘em down.

Except it won’t be.

You’re in a parking lot; hear gunshots & screaming behind you. You turn around, and there’s someone shooting at someone; you can’t see who.

So, do you engage? I bet a lot of people here would.

Of course, that may be a CCW’r who beat you to the punch on the unseen Bad Guy; or an off-duty cop. Meanwhile, another CCW’r rushing to the scene sees YOU shooting; you’re The Bad Guy, as far as they’re concerned.

Don’t make it like it’s an easy decision, or that someone should be condemned for not going in guns blazing.

It ain’t a movie.
 
HansGruber said:
The problem with this is that we want it to be black and white; easy decision. That’s The Bad Guy; shoot ‘em down.

Except it won’t be.

You’re in a parking lot; hear gunshots & screaming behind you. You turn around, and there’s someone shooting at someone; you can’t see who.

So, do you engage? I bet a lot of people here would.

Of course, that may be a CCW’r who beat you to the punch on the unseen Bad Guy; or an off-duty cop. Meanwhile, another CCW’r rushing to the scene sees YOU shooting; you’re The Bad Guy, as far as they’re concerned.

Don’t make it like it’s an easy decision, or that someone should be condemned for not going in guns blazing.

It ain’t a movie.
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Yep

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Why Was a Man Who Stopped a Mass Shooting Shot and Killed by Arvada Police?

Johnny Hurley was certain of many things in his life—one of which was that he would someday have the opportunity to stop an active shooter. On June 21, 2021, he did.
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Jutification for use of deadly force has nothing to do with distance, and has everything to do with whether a reasonable person believes he or she or others are in peril of death or grievous bodily harm. It can also be justified to stop imminent commission of a forcible felony. You can't put a range on that. Like everything else in use of force, "it depends", and laws vary state-to- state.
 
HayesGreener said:
Jutification for use of deadly force has nothing to do with distance, and has everything to do with whether a reasonable person believes he or she or others are in peril of death or grievous bodily harm. It can also be justified to stop imminent commission of a forcible felony. You can't put a range on that. Like everything else in use of force, "it depends", and laws vary state-to- state.
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^^THIS^^

While you can cherry pick a long distance situation it really boils down to what YOU can JUSTIFY and ARTiCUlATE as LEGAL and what YOUR true abilities are which most average permit holders don’t practice at 25 yards let alone 50. (Most here I would put above average as we as a group I’d bet hit the range and shoot more than the average permit holder)

So that said my observation from filling in as a Range RSO with a 50 yards indoor range is most people that carry don’t routinely practice outside 5-10 yards. So most “average” folks aren’t really thinking about 20-25-50 yards. Unless an incident happens then they are all over it.
 
somorris said:
Practicing at longer distances is challenging. But longer range practice can really humble me sometimes! Being off just a wee bit can be off a whole lot by the time the bullet gets to the target!
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Say, if you're carrying a compact or smaller 25+ yards is a challenge especially in 45acp. I stated that I shoot out to 100, but those are all full size. Accuracy in a compact or smaller at 25 yards can be tough, especially for a decent group. Sure you could hit a target at 100, but it's either spray and pray or take an extended time to aim which leaves you exposed.
 
TEXASforLIFE said:
Say, if you're carrying a compact or smaller 25+ yards is a challenge especially in 45acp. I stated that I shoot out to 100, but those are all full size. Accuracy in a compact or smaller at 25 yards can be tough, especially for a decent group. Sure you could hit a target at 100, but it's either spray and pray or take an extended time to aim which leaves you exposed.
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yes bc if you have good sized hands and the pistol/revolver is small or tiny, you've gotta be careful here never mind the assailants. Also TEXAS points out that 25 yds and more is challenging for the small stuff. It is and due to several factors, such as size of firearm, sight radius (which is pitiful with smaller units), sights tending to be miniscule and more. It's one thing to be at a range on a cradle or bagrest shooting at a fair away target that isn't moving and having someone shooting at you during the same scenario possibly while you are moving (to avoid being hit) as well.
 
I mentioned this on a separate thread but one of the blocks on at the East Coast Snub Revolver roundup Bryan Eastridge had distance shokting. We shot at 50 yards there were 4 8” steel and 1 6” steel and we got consistent hits at that range with 1 7/8”-3” snubs (I cheated the only snub I have is a 3” Model 10 but Bolke and Eastridge said bring it and have fun so I did)

Everyone was ringing more steel than not just learning your gun and load and hold!

I have shot 50 before both as part of my states Municipal LE Qual back in the day and I shot weekly PPC matches just amateur recreation

While obviously you wouldn’t take a hostage rescue **** with a handgun at that range as long as you are clear of rule 4 issues it can be done.

Practice in B8 repair center out to 25 and if you can keep it in the black you will be “Minute of Man” at 50
 
I shoot a fair amount at 25 on a regular basis, and occasionally at 50 and 75 ( limit of my range). Mt though-if I can consistently quickly ring Steel at 25, then 5 and 10 get Easy😊. The folks I’ve taught to shoot I also make do some 25 yard stuff, for the same reason.
 
It is important to know what you can do, but just as important to know what is beyond your skills and abilities. Shooting out yonder without the ability to hit your intended target is reckless. If you want to be able to shoot accurately between 25-100 yards, you need to practice to develop the skills. And bring enough gun.
 
HayesGreener said:
It is important to know what you can do, but just as important to know what is beyond your skills and abilities. Shooting out yonder without the ability to hit your intended target is reckless. If you want to be able to shoot accurately between 25-100 yards, you need to practice to develop the skills. And bring enough gun.
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Great points. Rule 4 issues get way overlooked by most. Why I sort of shake my head when folks get mad at sporting events or crowded venues where they restrict firearms.

On one hand I get it you should be able to carry on the other the ones making the most noise have zero clue on rule 4 issues and the parameters where they are going to be able to OR even have the close quarters skill/practice they could safely make a shot.

Like Tom Givens says through Rangemaster. The decision to carry a gun should not be taken lightly. It’s a lifestyle change. It can save you while at the same time putting you in prison or financially destroying you.

Strive to do it better and strive to do it right!!!
 
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