Sherman Tanks of the Israeli Army

[Talyn]

After yeoman’s service in World War II, the venerable Sherman tank saw several more decades of service in the Israeli Army.

Sherman Tanks of the Israeli Army

After yeoman’s service in World War II, the venerable Sherman tank saw several more decades of service in the Israeli Army.

warfarehistorynetwork.com

The M51 Isherman: A Fearsome Sherman Upgrade​

The French company that developed the M50 Super Sherman, developed a 105mm cannon with lower recoil that the Sherman hull and a modified turret could withstand. These T23 turrets also had new mantlets and a rear turret extension. This potent modification made the tank heavier, and to compensate for the added weight, a new Cummins 460hp diesel engine, wider tracks and a new hydraulic system were also installed. Some 200 of Israel’s Sharman's were altered, breathing new life into the old design.

Above in 1973, and below...

M51 Sherman with a French-made 105mm gun, diesel engine, and wide track and suspension. The tank was used in the Six-Day and Yom Kippur Wars.

Yea its War Thunder but shows some info on the M-51. The WT M-51 (W) never existed, but could have if the Israeli's more widely used the A3/A4 hulls (only a few) in addition to the standard A1 hulls used by the real M-51s

A rare M-51 on M4A3 hull damaged during the Six Days War with soldiers at rest.

M-51 - Tank Encyclopedia

The M-51 was the most advanced M4 Sherman variant in service with the Israeli Defense Force between 1961 and 1990.

tanks-encyclopedia.com

Sherman Tank - M51 Super Sherman

Learn about the M51 'Super Sherman' tank and its impressive capabilities, like a 105 mm gun. Discover how its modified version can take on even modern-day armor.

tankhistoria.com

 

[Snake45]

Panzer IVs were in service with Syria as late as the 1973 Yom Kippur War.

 

[Talyn]

Sherman Minutia

Sherman minutia homepage

 

[Talyn]

Panzer IVs were in service with Syria as late as the 1973 Yom Kippur War.

1967 Six-Day

Beside numerous artillery pieces, the Syrians deployed dug in WWII era Pz.Kpfw IV tanks on the Golan Heights.
On one occasion, a Pz.Kpfw IV was knocked out at long range with only its turret being visible.

 

[Cedric]

After yeoman’s service in World War II, the venerable Sherman tank saw several more decades of service in the Israeli Army.

Sherman Tanks of the Israeli Army

After yeoman’s service in World War II, the venerable Sherman tank saw several more decades of service in the Israeli Army.

warfarehistorynetwork.com

View attachment 49357

The M51 Isherman: A Fearsome Sherman Upgrade​

The French company that developed the M50 Super Sherman, developed a 105mm cannon with lower recoil that the Sherman hull and a modified turret could withstand. These T23 turrets also had new mantlets and a rear turret extension. This potent modification made the tank heavier, and to compensate for the added weight, a new Cummins 460hp diesel engine, wider tracks and a new hydraulic system were also installed. Some 200 of Israel’s Sharman's were altered, breathing new life into the old design.

Above in 1973, and below...
View attachment 49358
M51 Sherman with a French-made 105mm gun, diesel engine, and wide track and suspension. The tank was used in the Six-Day and Yom Kippur Wars.

Yea its War Thunder but shows some info on the M-51. The WT M-51 (W) never existed, but could have if the Israeli's more widely used the A3/A4 hulls (only a few) in addition to the standard A1 hulls used by the real M-51s

View attachment 49364
A rare M-51 on M4A3 hull damaged during the Six Days War with soldiers at rest.

M-51 - Tank Encyclopedia

The M-51 was the most advanced M4 Sherman variant in service with the Israeli Defense Force between 1961 and 1990.

tanks-encyclopedia.com

Sherman Tank - M51 Super Sherman

Learn about the M51 'Super Sherman' tank and its impressive capabilities, like a 105 mm gun. Discover how its modified version can take on even modern-day armor.

tankhistoria.com

Thanks for this info. Another good site is All Things Sherman https://www.theshermantank.com/ focusing on WWII service.

BTW, the IDF chose to put US engines in many non-US tanks especially British Centurions. They were called Patturians after the Patton tank.

 

[USMC6094]

The Israeli armored corps is the world standard for getting everything out of its equipment.
The last iteration of their Sherman was a fully enclosed 155 mm self propelled gun.
Their Centurions are now armored personnel carriers.
They never let anything go to waste.

 

[Talyn]

Thanks for this info. Another good site is All Things Sherman https://www.theshermantank.com/ focusing on WWII service.

BTW, the IDF chose to put US engines in many non-US tanks especially British Centurions. They were called Patturians after the Patton tank.

Had to do some digging, but the only time I can find the term Patturion being used is in the old Avalon Hill games about the Arab Israeli-wars, pertaining to upgraded M48's with the 105mm gun.

Arab–Israeli Wars (game) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

AVALON HILL THE ARAB-ISRAELI WARS Tank Battles in the Mideast Bookcase game 821 | eBay

Vintage AVALON HILL THE ARAB-ISRAELI WARS Tank Battles in the Mideast 1956-73 Bookcase game # 821 1977 Complete.

www.ebay.com

Actually, the Israeli's also replace the engines in the M48's, (aka Magach) going from gas to diesels, and putting the same Continental AVDS-1790-2A diesel engine and the Allison CD850-6 transmission into the upgraded Centurions. (aka Sho't Kal), plus the Brit 105mm L7.

They also upgraded the various early-series M48's that they acquired with the 105mm L7. Subsequent upgrades to both tanks ranged from...

Shot Main Battle Tank

Israeli Centurion conversions of the cold war, Shot Main Battle Tank and variants 1970-1980.

tank-afv.com

Magach-7 main battle tank 1985

The Magach lineage was a seerie of conversion o the Israeli M60 from 1985 to 1990, the last one is the Magach 7C, which underwent a serie of transformations

tank-afv.com

Centurion (aka Sho't)

Sho't Kal Alef
Sho't Kal Bet
Sho't Kal Gimel
Sho't Kal Dalet

Sho't - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

M48 (aka Magach)
See Magach Wiki list

Magach - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[rcurtner]

After yeoman’s service in World War II, the venerable Sherman tank saw several more decades of service in the Israeli Army.

Sherman Tanks of the Israeli Army

After yeoman’s service in World War II, the venerable Sherman tank saw several more decades of service in the Israeli Army.

warfarehistorynetwork.com

View attachment 49357

The M51 Isherman: A Fearsome Sherman Upgrade​

The French company that developed the M50 Super Sherman, developed a 105mm cannon with lower recoil that the Sherman hull and a modified turret could withstand. These T23 turrets also had new mantlets and a rear turret extension. This potent modification made the tank heavier, and to compensate for the added weight, a new Cummins 460hp diesel engine, wider tracks and a new hydraulic system were also installed. Some 200 of Israel’s Sharman's were altered, breathing new life into the old design.

Above in 1973, and below...
View attachment 49358
M51 Sherman with a French-made 105mm gun, diesel engine, and wide track and suspension. The tank was used in the Six-Day and Yom Kippur Wars.

Yea its War Thunder but shows some info on the M-51. The WT M-51 (W) never existed, but could have if the Israeli's more widely used the A3/A4 hulls (only a few) in addition to the standard A1 hulls used by the real M-51s

View attachment 49364
A rare M-51 on M4A3 hull damaged during the Six Days War with soldiers at rest.

M-51 - Tank Encyclopedia

The M-51 was the most advanced M4 Sherman variant in service with the Israeli Defense Force between 1961 and 1990.

tanks-encyclopedia.com

Sherman Tank - M51 Super Sherman

Learn about the M51 'Super Sherman' tank and its impressive capabilities, like a 105 mm gun. Discover how its modified version can take on even modern-day armor.

tankhistoria.com

I wa stationed in Germany, 8th Inf Div. 1/68th Amor Bn., in 1965. I can't remember if it was my Battalion or the division that had an operational M4 Sherman. I saw it once in a parade. It was so small compared to our M-60A1's. Can only imagine going against much more advanced German tanks & Anti tank guns. Must have been very, very scary.

 

[Talyn]

The Israeli armored corps is the world standard for getting everything out of its equipment.
The last iteration of their Sherman was a fully enclosed 155 mm self propelled gun.
Their Centurions are now armored personnel carriers.
They never let anything go to waste.

I agree.

In the Gaza conflict I see Merkava 2 & 3's still being used.

 

[Talyn]

The ultimate Centurion, the Sho't Kal Dalet

Lebanon 1980s.

The Ultimate M48, the Magach 5

 

[rcurtner]

The ultimate Centurion, the Sho't Kal Dalet

Lebanon 1980s.
View attachment 49450
View attachment 49451
The Ultimate M48, the Magach 5

View attachment 49452
View attachment 49453

The M-48 series had a long run. In Vietnam we had A3's. With all the reactive armor on this later model I can hardly see the outline of the turret & front slope. The 105mm main gun was probably a huge improvement. I was told upon my arrival the M-60 tank 105mm ammo was geared more for tank to tank combat. The 90mm BEEHIVE & CANISTER rounds were great against those people. We also carried WP, HE, HEAT & a few HVDS rounds.

 

[Cedric]

Had to do some digging, but the only time I can find the term Patturion being used is in the old Avalon Hill games about the Arab Israeli-wars, pertaining to upgraded M48's with the 105mm gun.

Arab–Israeli Wars (game) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

AVALON HILL THE ARAB-ISRAELI WARS Tank Battles in the Mideast Bookcase game 821 | eBay

Vintage AVALON HILL THE ARAB-ISRAELI WARS Tank Battles in the Mideast 1956-73 Bookcase game # 821 1977 Complete.

www.ebay.com

Actually, the Israeli's also replace the engines in the M48's, (aka Magach) going from gas to diesels, and putting the same Continental AVDS-1790-2A diesel engine and the Allison CD850-6 transmission into the upgraded Centurions. (aka Sho't Kal), plus the Brit 105mm L7.

They also upgraded the various early-series M48's that they acquired with the 105mm L7. Subsequent upgrades to both tanks ranged from...

Shot Main Battle Tank

Israeli Centurion conversions of the cold war, Shot Main Battle Tank and variants 1970-1980.

tank-afv.com

Magach-7 main battle tank 1985

The Magach lineage was a seerie of conversion o the Israeli M60 from 1985 to 1990, the last one is the Magach 7C, which underwent a serie of transformations

tank-afv.com

Centurion (aka Sho't)

Sho't Kal Alef
Sho't Kal Bet
Sho't Kal Gimel
Sho't Kal Dalet

Sho't - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

M48 (aka Magach)
See Magach Wiki list

Magach - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It may have been a nickname we used in the late 70s however, the diesel you mention was used in US M48A3s which were used in VN. The only gas M48s I saw were M48A2Cs in use by the Bundeswehr in the late 70s. Basically any upgrade to that M48 engine and the excellent British L7 gun (our nomenclature is the M68) would result in our M48A5, which was done at Anniston Army Depot I think. The difference between the M48A5 and the Israeli equivalents and the M60 is externally the M60 has a straight bow while the M48s and Magach hull had the elliptical bow.

Engine upgrades to the Centurion were necessary because typically heavy Centurions and Chieftains of the day were, IMO, under-powered for their weight. I've seen Chieftains at their training area at Bergen-hohne struggling to move up a slight grade. But it seems that's the Brit way to go heavy armor post WWII. I don't think we had comparable heavy armor until the Abrams, which BTW has a derivative of Brit Chobham armor.

 

[rcurtner]

The A3's used a Continental V-12 Supercharged diesel and an Allision cross drive auto transmission.

 

[Cedric]

The M-48 series had a long run. In Vietnam we had A3's. With all the reactive armor on this later model I can hardly see the outline of the turret & front slope. The 105mm main gun was probably a huge improvement. I was told upon my arrival the M-60 tank 105mm ammo was geared more for tank to tank combat. The 90mm BEEHIVE & CANISTER rounds were great against those people. We also carried WP, HE, HEAT & a few HVDS rounds.

The M-60 series also had Beehive Timed, HEP (aka HESH), HEAT, WP, and APDS. Though an improvement over the 90mm, I respect the 90. Our Bundeswehr sister unit had M48A2Cs and when they went to gunnery with us, that thing made my ears hurt when it went off and that was way behind the firing line. IMO, the M-26, M-46, and M-47 were necessary evolutionary models which didn't quite measure up to standards until we got the M48. All the M60 series were based on the M48 and were called Pattons, too. Like you said, the Israelis don't throw anything away (neither do the Russians). We have a bad habit of tossing successful weapons into the junk yard.

 

[Cedric]

I agree.

In the Gaza conflict I see Merkava 2 & 3's still being used.

Not only did they turn the Centurions into heavy APCs, but I see on the news their mech infantry still use M113s, another of the most successful armored vehicles in the world.

 

[Cedric]

I wa stationed in Germany, 8th Inf Div. 1/68th Amor Bn., in 1965. I can't remember if it was my Battalion or the division that had an operational M4 Sherman. I saw it once in a parade. It was so small compared to our M-60A1's. Can only imagine going against much more advanced German tanks & Anti tank guns. Must have been very, very scary.

I encourage you to watch military historian Nicholas Moran debunk myths about the Sherman

. It's very enlightening.

Or this one:

 

[USMC6094]

I remember reading somewhere, God knows where, that the French 105 in the M51 had such a sharp recoil impulse that the driver dropped the tank into neutral when the gun was fired.
And the 75 on the M50 was a French development of the main gun on the German Panther.
And as far the M48, South Korea has took it to a high that I think only Israel matched before more modern types came along

 

[rcurtner]

I guess I'm hard headed. I watched the 1st video, wasn't that impressed. German tanks with 88mm guns and anti-tank guns were devastating to American armor. Their 57mm anti tank guns were almost as deadly. I saw several M-48's, M-113's hit with RPG's. The M-113's usually had major damage, wounded or killed crews & grunts. The tanks faired much better. Of course where the RPG hit was the determing factor. I even saw a 57mm Recoiless Rifle hit on a tank that killed the whole crew. The round hit right at the turret ring next to the driver. You obviously have done a considerable amount of research and I commend you on your knowledge.

 

[Cedric]

I guess I'm hard headed. I watched the 1st video, wasn't that impressed. German tanks with 88mm guns and anti-tank guns were devastating to American armor. Their 57mm anti tank guns were almost as deadly. I saw several M-48's, M-113's hit with RPG's. The M-113's usually had major damage, wounded or killed crews & grunts. The tanks faired much better. Of course where the RPG hit was the determing factor. I even saw a 57mm Recoiless Rifle hit on a tank that killed the whole crew. The round hit right at the turret ring next to the driver. You obviously have done a considerable amount of research and I commend you on your knowledge.

I think one of Moran's main points is that the battlefield was not saturated with Panthers and Tigers and note that US tankers encountered Tigers only three times post D-Day resulting in two wins for the Sherman and a loss for the Pershing. The mainstay of German Panzer forces was the Mark IV Panzer which was roughly comparable to the Sherman but without solid logistical and maintenance support (as were all their panzer units) to sustain operations, and by 1943/44 had lost experienced crew members and had lost experienced operational leadership (see the Battle of Arracourt). I also recommend looking at the US infantry vs. US armor crewmen casualties in the video - a huge difference. So, the tanks were doing their job.

You may want to check out this site: http://niehorster.org/013_usa/44-06-06_Neptune/44_tank-strengths/_tank-strengths.html

It shows tank unit losses by type and "in maintenance" times. Those that are in repair for less than 24 hours, and those greater than 24 hours. The gap in the count vs operational tanks are I presume those written off/catastrophic kill. Shermans were not being killed in droves. Sometimes there are a few units that have suffered a lot of Sherman losses - I'm thinking of one of the independent tank battalions but can't remember which one, but we didn't leave a wake of busted Shermans on the battlefield. Also note that the 6th Armored Division is not showing any of the new 76mm gun Shermans. The Sixth refused to accept them having confidence in the 75mm and combined ops with TDs if necessary.

 

[Cedric]

I remember reading somewhere, God knows where, that the French 105 in the M51 had such a sharp recoil impulse that the driver dropped the tank into neutral when the gun was fired.
And the 75 on the M50 was a French development of the main gun on the German Panther.
And as far the M48, South Korea has took it to a high that I think only Israel matched before more modern types came along

It's easy to believe. IIRC, the 105 was a low velocity gun firing a HEAT round which does not depend on high velocity kinetic energy round to penetrate armor. However, a gun like that mounted on a Sherman would probably rattle your teeth. I was on Sheridans with a low velocity 152mm gun firing a big a** HEAT round and it would knock your socks off.