Should You Shoot? Self-Defense Tips You Don’t Know

[Bassbob]

Pretty sure I can accurately define a justifiable shooting. I'm not in a gun-friendly state, though I'm in a fairly gun-friendly area of it, but we live in an age in which unwanted national media attention can descend upon us at any time, drawing down all kinds of hell. If I can avoid any/all of that, I'm perfectly happy to.

Was not meant to refer to you personally. I'm just saying that in a state with laws such as mine, as long as you are justified you are fine. The worst thing that will happen is the cops will keep your gun until the investigation is over.

 

[neil0311]

Possibly true (I'm not doubting your word), but keep in mind that shooting another human being, even if justified, is likely to be one of the most expensive things you'll ever do in your life. (I could cite a couple cases from today's headlines.) If there's any way to avoid that expense and keep all the good people safe, I'm taking it.

That’s why organizations like US Law Shield and USCCA exist. I have coverage for both criminal and civil legal fees, and I have other liability insurance that covers me as well if I did lose a civil case.

Look, not recommending taking a life if it’s not necessary and not the only safe option, but you know self defense when you see it, and you shouldn’t hesitate because of what might happen later if your life is at risk.

 

[C. Sumpin]

Laws and their enforcement change with the times, best to keep up with them.
As a 16 year old home alone one Friday night (1970) in Ohio, a burglar broke a window in the garage and had gone inside. My dad kept an M1 carbine out (he loved it and messed with it all the time) so before going outside I put a magazine in it and grabbed a flashlight.
The burglar heard the door and climbed back out the window, and stood there glaring at me in the dark. I dropped the light and raised the rifle and told him he needed to run. When I jacked the action he took off.
Being a kid I reinforced his decision to runnoft with a couple shots into the ground well behind him and he was all assh**es and elbows heading for the overgrown lot one street over.
The neighbors heard the shooting and called the cops so I put away the rifle and sat on the front porch.
I told them the story and they listened, talked to each other, and told me, "if you ever shoot a prowler out here drag him in the house."
I don't want to hurt anyone, but I get angry when people disrespect our property and have a bad temper.
I don't carry guns because the area I live in now is a lot safer than the redneck neighborhood I grew up in.
I was glad that idiot ran off.

Couple things: IMO "if you ever shoot a prowler out here drag him in the house." is not sound advice. They think LE is stupid? And "the redneck neighborhood I grew up in". I'm not so sure there is anything wrong with growing up in a redneck neighborhood, and I may still be one.

I've said it before and I'll repeat: I'll go to extreme measures (insult, embarrassment, name calling, cursing, challenging, damage to property, physical assault (to a limit) and many other "offenses") and take it, find a way out, before ever doing anything physical or violent that draws the attention of LE. The last thing anyone should want is to enter the (In?)Justice/litigation system. "Justice" is not easy to accomplish. The law and the courts may not see things the way you and most everyone else does. Once in, getting out of the legal system is not easy or a given; you represent revenue that folks want whether you are right or wrong. Who wants to be "right" and broke? Pride and the need to be a real man will gobble you up and spit you out and you'll never be the same. But if there is no way out, and it is me or them, then we'll play for real.

 

[Mr. Untactical]

Laws and their enforcement change with the times, best to keep up with them.
As a 16 year old home alone one Friday night (1970) in Ohio, a burglar broke a window in the garage and had gone inside. My dad kept an M1 carbine out (he loved it and messed with it all the time) so before going outside I put a magazine in it and grabbed a flashlight.
The burglar heard the door and climbed back out the window, and stood there glaring at me in the dark. I dropped the light and raised the rifle and told him he needed to run. When I jacked the action he took off.
Being a kid I reinforced his decision to runnoft with a couple shots into the ground well behind him and he was all assh**es and elbows heading for the overgrown lot one street over.
The neighbors heard the shooting and called the cops so I put away the rifle and sat on the front porch.
I told them the story and they listened, talked to each other, and told me, "if you ever shoot a prowler out here drag him in the house."
I don't want to hurt anyone, but I get angry when people disrespect our property and have a bad temper.
I don't carry guns because the area I live in now is a lot safer than the redneck neighborhood I grew up in.
I was glad that idiot ran off.

This is interesting in that the advice is the same my mother was given by Tampa police in the 80s. She had experienced two instances of breaking and entering (fortunately, when she was not at home). During one interview with police, she asked the officer if she could shoot a burglar through the door/window if he was in the act of breaking in. The officer told her if she did, she needed to drag them in the house before police arrived.

Not sure that would fly in court these days, but in my mom's case, she had a legitimate fear.

 

[Mr. Untactical]

This is a very good article in my opinion because each and every one of us who carry need to understand what the author is articulating.

1. Can I take another's life? Recently, we were visiting family in FL. I was up early and sitting in the living room when what sounded like someone yanking on the screen door started in earnest. I mean, it was violent. I kept quiet, went back into the bedroom and retrieved my XD Mod.2 subcompact. The noise continued and I spoke loud enough to be heard through the door and told whoever it was that there wasn't anything in our house worth their trouble. The noise stopped. Within about a minute, it started again - this time at the back door. Let me tell you, the adrenaline dump was pretty strong. Right about then, my wife came out and said, "It's Shelby." (my mother-in-law's dog) "Didn't you hear the thunder?"

First off, there's no way I'm shooting anyone through the door. I don't know what's on the other side of the door and I'm responsible for knowing my target and what's beyond it. Second, I was prepared as I had ever been to pull the trigger, but I do not ever want to have to do that - ever. But as the author write, the ability to (even potentially) take another life is a high bar to clear, mentally and emotionally.

2. Should I?

These two points sum up the article. "Can I?" is something we each have to square with ourselves. "Should I?" is something we need to research and understand where we live - in our homes, our neighborhoods, our communities, etc. I conceal carry and I need to know the law everywhere I carry, with regard to the consequences and outcomes of using my firearm in self defense. I spend a lot of time, money, and effort training to be proficient with my firearm. I should spend at least that much time getting my head right, too.

 

[KillerFord1977]

Rule #1: regardless of your level of training.

IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET !!!

I have posted on here at length my having a gun drawn on an intruder in my house that happened to be my wife coming home sick unexpectedly from work . Could have been bad, but I followed rule #1

 

[Keystone19250]

This is interesting in that the advice is the same my mother was given by Tampa police in the 80s. She had experienced two instances of breaking and entering (fortunately, when she was not at home). During one interview with police, she asked the officer if she could shoot a burglar through the door/window if he was in the act of breaking in. The officer told her if she did, she needed to drag them in the house before police arrived.

Not sure that would fly in court these days, but in my mom's case, she had a legitimate fear.

What the officer told your mom has been mentioned 3 times in this thread and although it’s a stand up idea there is one caveat to that and that is the blood trail. I wouldn’t want my door busted down but I’ll wait till the bad guy(s) are inside my home then drop them without hesitation.
I live in one of those states that has the castle doctrine and stand your ground as well, that being said I will attempt to retreat if possible if not possible I’ll be the one going home. The other instance I’ll reference is the uptick in carjackings, if someone approached me with a gun to make an attempt at an armed carjacking it would be his last attempt.

 

[C. Sumpin]

My nieces family lived in salty area of Memphis. Late summer evening was chaos at the front door, and the dude made it in. Man of the house was armed with a revolver but held his fire. Turns out the guy was unarmed running for his life from a drug buy gone sour. Guess he could have fired/killed the dude, but the dude meant no harm to anyone in the residence. His hesitation/kool to squeeze the trigger saved a life instead of taking one..................

 

[neil0311]

Couple things: IMO "if you ever shoot a prowler out here drag him in the house." is not sound advice. They think LE is stupid? And "the redneck neighborhood I grew up in". I'm not so sure there is anything wrong with growing up in a redneck neighborhood, and I may still be one.

I've said it before and I'll repeat: I'll go to extreme measures (insult, embarrassment, name calling, cursing, challenging, damage to property, physical assault (to a limit) and many other "offenses") and take it, find a way out, before ever doing anything physical or violent that draws the attention of LE. The last thing anyone should want is to enter the (In?)Justice/litigation system. "Justice" is not easy to accomplish. The law and the courts may not see things the way you and most everyone else does. Once in, getting out of the legal system is not easy or a given; you represent revenue that folks want whether you are right or wrong. Who wants to be "right" and broke? Pride and the need to be a real man will gobble you up and spit you out and you'll never be the same. But if there is no way out, and it is me or them, then we'll play for real.

I think that’s why you have to make sure you have the right legal and liability coverage or plan in place.

It also depends on what state and county you live in. I wouldn’t live in a state like CA or NY or MA (where I lived for many years) because the laws don’t give citizens the same protections and the left leaning DA’s won’t protect your rights.

But if my life or my family is in danger, and I believe someone who committed a home invasion is about to commit a forcible felony…all that’s needed in my state…then I’ll do whatever is necessary.

Otherwise what’s the point of having firearms and being proficient and training, beyond just practice at the range?

 

[neil0311]

Possibly true (I'm not doubting your word), but keep in mind that shooting another human being, even if justified, is likely to be one of the most expensive things you'll ever do in your life. (I could cite a couple cases from today's headlines.) If there's any way to avoid that expense and keep all the good people safe, I'm taking it.

I guess the point I’m making over and over is it’s not about money. If your safety is at risk, and the law is on your side, then you have to protect yourself.

Otherwise, why own firearms? Why not just get a taser and a can of mace? Or ask the perpetrator to leave or that you strenuously object to them committing a home invasion?

I’m being slightly sarcastic but the point is serious. If you’re not prepared to defend yourself with your firearm, when legally able to do so, then why have it? You can avoid all the trouble and cost of doing so, and maybe you’ll still be alive to enjoy the money.

 

[papa]

It is amazing to me the number of people who still believe the " if you shoot them outside , be sure to drag them inside before you call the police " line. I had to argue with my sister and B-I-L recently about this very idea. I have had to argue with others also about this.

Like has been said by several others in this thread , the police used to tell people this because if the bad guy was in your home and badly hurt or deceased you were golden. It just isn't that way anymore.

 

[Snake45]

I guess the point I’m making over and over is it’s not about money. If your safety is at risk, and the law is on your side, then you have to protect yourself.

Otherwise, why own firearms? Why not just get a taser and a can of mace? Or ask the perpetrator to leave or that you strenuously object to them committing a home invasion?

I’m being slightly sarcastic but the point is serious. If you’re not prepared to defend yourself with your firearm, when legally able to do so, then why have it? You can avoid all the trouble and cost of doing so, and maybe you’ll still be alive to enjoy the money.

I've never said different. I'm saying that I'm not using deadly force unless it's otherwise unavoidable.

 

[neil0311]

I've never said different. I'm saying that I'm not using deadly force unless it's otherwise unavoidable.

Well, there were comments about financial risk and cost. Was just addressing that I don’t worry about cost and liability when my life is on the line.

 

[Ranger715]

I would implore everyone to go directly to the text of your state's laws to learn what justifiable self defense is where you live. Don't listen to other people, even lawyers and trainers, tell you what it is. Read and learn for yourself from the original source. Then you won't be led astray, and you can pursue questions from an accurate starting point.

 

[HayesGreener]

G

I would implore everyone to go directly to the text of your state's laws to learn what justifiable self defense is where you live. Don't listen to other people, even lawyers and trainers, tell you what it is. Read and learn for yourself from the original source. Then you won't be led astray, and you can pursue questions from an accurate starting point.

Good advice there. I put strong emphasis on the law of deadly force in my classes and am often surprised at the misconceptions held by many. Even when fully justified using deadly force should be avoided if possible. It is a last resort. Pulling that trigger will change your life, forever.

 

[conax]

Couple things: IMO "if you ever shoot a prowler out here drag him in the house." is not sound advice. They think LE is stupid? And "the redneck neighborhood I grew up in". I'm not so sure there is anything wrong with growing up in a redneck neighborhood, and I may still be one.

They were the county sheriff's deputies. There were two, which meant they were expecting trouble. This was THE law enforcement I would have to deal with 51 years ago in that village. I was being kind when I called it a redneck neighborhood. It was (and is) a poor, under employed, infested with petty criminals neighborhood with shootings in the bar parking lot a couple times a year, regular knife fights, burglary, robberies, and grand theft auto as they say. I was a skinny 16 year old facing a 210 pound dirtbag (in near total darkness) known for his felony record, I could type his name but I won't.
I didn't shoot the rat but had I done so, nobody would miss him in that place.
As I said up above- times change- law enforcement changes- and this was a long time before cell phones, Ring cameras, or storm trooper cops. The deputy just said to make it look good, they knew my family and we were not among the troublemakers. Just to clarify.

 

[neil0311]

I would implore everyone to go directly to the text of your state's laws to learn what justifiable self defense is where you live. Don't listen to other people, even lawyers and trainers, tell you what it is. Read and learn for yourself from the original source. Then you won't be led astray, and you can pursue questions from an accurate starting point.

I agree. I was offered and attended a half day session on the laws of my state and received a


book as well, which I’ve read.

Whatever organization you choose to help you mitigate the risk, it’s money well spent.

 

[kenstar23]

We live in Washington State which is NOT friendly to gun owners. One night at about 2PM our alarm went off. It is very loud. Our two granddaughters were staying overnight. The alarm area was a window in the first-floor family room. After waiting several minutes, I got my Sig P320 and went down to look. We called the police, but we live in a hidden cul-de-sac, and it can take the police up to a half-hour to find us. Everybody else stayed in a second-story bedroom. After rethinking this, a better course of action would have been to fortress ourselves in the bedroom and await the eventual arrival of the police. It's hard to know what to do given the meth-head potential in our area and possible body armour protection that some bad guys have. Fortunately, it was a bad wire connection in the window monitor... a good learning experience! With the extremely loud alarm and with our granddaughters with us and the high adrenaline situation, it's hard to think coolly and do the right thing.

 

[KASHIRA-3]

It is good to carry less than lethal to try and escape the attack. Nitrogen powered pepper spray, maybe a collapsible baton, pocket folder and tactical flashlight may come in handy.

There is certainly nothing wrong with carrying less lethal options but I am not about to get into the "batman belt" realm. I have my words, my hands, my knife and my handgun. I do on some occasions OC spray if I am in light weight attire or in some venue where knives and guns are not practicable. I am not a proponent of carrying batons and I think that a good many people have an over inflated expectation of what effect a baton will have on a violent offender. Television and movies may have a bad influence of what inexperienced people think about common baton-ish impact weapons.

I have plenty of reservation in regards to using a firearm. I will reserve that level of force for only those instances where I MUST use it and not simply because "I think I can". When I say MUST, I mean that I expect innocent life to be lost (right now) or in the next few breaths.. I fail to act.

 

[Mr. Untactical]

What the officer told your mom has been mentioned 3 times in this thread and although it’s a stand up idea there is one caveat to that and that is the blood trail. I wouldn’t want my door busted down but I’ll wait till the bad guy(s) are inside my home then drop them without hesitation.
I live in one of those states that has the castle doctrine and stand your ground as well, that being said I will attempt to retreat if possible if not possible I’ll be the one going home. The other instance I’ll reference is the uptick in carjackings, if someone approached me with a gun to make an attempt at an armed carjacking it would be his last attempt.

With regard to the police's advice re: dragging the person inside, that's the same thing I thought of as well - even when I was a teenager and heard my mom talking about it. The other thing was how realistic is it to think Mom could drag a (presumably) dead burglar into the house anyway?