Situational Awareness Driving
- Thread starter michael.ed
- Start date
Absolutely. I witnessed a rear-ending yesterday that was - without a doubt - due to excessive speed and insufficient clear distance.
Same as with The Four Rules, it's abridging two or more that results in calamity.
And the even greater risk than speeding is the differential of speed. If I'm obeying the PSL and everyone - including not just the usual civilian commuter vehicles, but also commercial trucks and even municipal busses - is passing me with a differential that's greater than 15 MPH? I would propose that it's really not the PSL that's the problem.....
But even discounting the speed differentials, the issue of speeding begs this follow-up: while there's no doubt in my mind that speeding is a huge problem, why is its enforcement so inconsistent?
As I wrote tongue-in-cheek previously, we don't just rape a little, right?
So why is it that when myself and literally thousands of commuters drive through Woodland and Buckeye at speeds nearly double the posted limit, that Cleveland PD and East Cleveland PD simply turn a blind eye? There's never speed-traps set up in those locations, no-one is pulled over via pacing, and even worse, other more flagrant disregard for motor vehicle laws are displayed directly in front of occupied patrol vehicles (be they stationary or sharing the roadways at the time)?
For me, I think that we (as a culture) have come to the entitlement of "we (as unique individuals) own the road" in-part due to inconsistent and in many times seemingly arbitrary enforcement of traffic codes. As a parent and dog-owner, I've always believed that in order to teach my child or my pet to obey the rules, those rules need to be fairly and consistently enforced. We've all seen those parents who do not discipline their kids in a consistent manner: it then becomes a game of cat-and-mouse, of "what can I get away with?" And in such cases, is it then really that fair to just place the blame solely on the child?
But to start with, the rules themselves need to be fair and logical to begin with. For example, that a township will drop the speed limit on a road because they let it fall to such a state of disrepair that vehicles in poor condition to begin with would suffer catastrophic damages from its pockmarked surfaces - that's definitely logical. But once that roadway has been repaired, instead of restoring the previous speed limit, that township continued to post speed-traps...a step which really caused not only quite some consternation in the community, but also engendered a sense of distrust and cynicism.
To an extent, I believe that we've sorta been set up to fail.... And what's more, that each time we "get away with it," it simply reinforces the behavior.
Who here hasn't said or heard something to the effect of "The [insert the name of referenced agency] won't even look at you if you aren't going [X]-over, so just set your cruise-control to [Y]-over."
Why is breaking this law socially acceptable?
Why is it that we then suggest that breaking that law to the extend that we do (i.e. "I never drive more than [Z]-over") any worse/better than, say, that left-lane-hog on the highway (of which many areas in the US have traffic codes against) who is driving above the legal minimum but below PSL? or that drive who rolled the stop-sign? right-turned on-red in a prohibited area?
Again, I'm not posting to be argumentative. And again, I'm not posting to suggest that I'm better (or worse
- my driving record has been sparkling clean for going on 16 years, now, and my maxed-out insurance carries a laughable premium [sadly about to change because my daughter is going to be licensed in less than 6 months]...for as easy-going of a driver as I used to be, concealed-carry has made me even more relaxed and courteous of a driver ) than anyone. I just wanted to get some discussion going, that's all. 
HayesGreener
Ronin
Absolutely. I witnessed a rear-ending yesterday that was - without a doubt - due to excessive speed and insufficient clear distance.
Same as with The Four Rules, it's abridging two or more that results in calamity.
And the even greater risk than speeding is the differential of speed. If I'm obeying the PSL and everyone - including not just the usual civilian commuter vehicles, but also commercial trucks and even municipal busses - is passing me with a differential that's greater than 15 MPH? I would propose that it's really not the PSL that's the problem.....
But even discounting the speed differentials, the issue of speeding begs this follow-up: while there's no doubt in my mind that speeding is a huge problem, why is its enforcement so inconsistent?
As I wrote tongue-in-cheek previously, we don't just rape a little, right?
So why is it that when myself and literally thousands of commuters drive through Woodland and Buckeye at speeds nearly double the posted limit, that Cleveland PD and East Cleveland PD simply turn a blind eye? There's never speed-traps set up in those locations, no-one is pulled over via pacing, and even worse, other more flagrant disregard for motor vehicle laws are displayed directly in front of occupied patrol vehicles (be they stationary or sharing the roadways at the time)?
Most agencies target speed enforcement activities where the crashes are happening. Data about where your wrecks are occurring, and how many injuries and the severity of injuries drive speed and traffic control violation enforcement. We had a number of intersections where 70,000 or more vehicles a day transited. Usually the worst zones are near an intersection. You pick your worst crash zones and target them with intense speed enforcement efforts. We would choose the approaches to the worst intersections for a mile radius, sometimes using aircraft and unmarked cruisers. We discovered that while we could drastically reduce the number of injuries, we generally could not reduce the number of crashes significantly.Why is it that we then suggest that breaking that law to the extend that we do (i.e. "I never drive more than [Z]-over") any worse/better than, say, that left-lane-hog on the highway (of which many areas in the US have traffic codes against) who is driving above the legal minimum but below PSL? or that drive who rolled the stop-sign? right-turned on-red in a prohibited area?
Again, I'm not posting to be argumentative. And again, I'm not posting to suggest that I'm better (or worse
Traffic safety units in police departments are usually small in number due to the pull of calls for service. Where call loads are high and manpower is short, speed enforcement suffers. Your department, with 110 personnel, probably has fewer than 7 officers assigned to traffic safety (just guessing). Another factor is community acceptance of speed enforcement. Most citizens understand aggressive enforcement in problem areas, but speed traps for the sake of writing tickets, not so much. With the education and training level of that department I am sure they are using data to direct targeted enforcement efforts. But not all departments have the ability or the inclination for such proactive enforcement. Talk to your police chief about it, in a city that size you might find her receptive to your thoughts.
^ Thanks for taking the time, @HayesGreener . That mirrors closely what my friends in various local PDs have told me, too, when I inquired.
I actually don't blame the officers at all for not choosing to enforce traffic violations in Cleveland and East Cleveland. With today's political climate, I think it exposes the individual officers themselves to too much community blowback. I utilize Nextdoor and other neighborhood social-media apps as a way to simply keep abreast of concerns that occur close-to-home, and it's honestly heartbreaking what some folks write regarding law enforcement. That demands its own thread....
I also believe that with the types of violent crimes that occur in that area (you've probably seen these two on your searches of where I am, which occurred further east of the Woodland-Buckeye corridor, but is in a similar neighborhood - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cleveland-mayor-s-grandson-killed-weekend-shooting-n1279646 and https://www.cleveland19.com/2021/09...ken-down-car-clevelands-east-side-police-say/), their resources are better used elsewhere.
We actually live in a different "inner-ring" suburb of metro-CLE, Shaker Heights. Community attitudes as well as how officers conduct enforcement (traffic or otherwise) are quite different as soon as one crosses into our municipality. The "Shaker Barricades (https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/824)," which still exist today provides an interesting look into the history of the city.
[ General note: We live in the "regular people" part of Shaker, not in one of the mansions. We're not rich!
]
I actually don't blame the officers at all for not choosing to enforce traffic violations in Cleveland and East Cleveland. With today's political climate, I think it exposes the individual officers themselves to too much community blowback. I utilize Nextdoor and other neighborhood social-media apps as a way to simply keep abreast of concerns that occur close-to-home, and it's honestly heartbreaking what some folks write regarding law enforcement. That demands its own thread....
I also believe that with the types of violent crimes that occur in that area (you've probably seen these two on your searches of where I am, which occurred further east of the Woodland-Buckeye corridor, but is in a similar neighborhood - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cleveland-mayor-s-grandson-killed-weekend-shooting-n1279646 and https://www.cleveland19.com/2021/09...ken-down-car-clevelands-east-side-police-say/), their resources are better used elsewhere.
We actually live in a different "inner-ring" suburb of metro-CLE, Shaker Heights. Community attitudes as well as how officers conduct enforcement (traffic or otherwise) are quite different as soon as one crosses into our municipality. The "Shaker Barricades (https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/824)," which still exist today provides an interesting look into the history of the city.
[ General note: We live in the "regular people" part of Shaker, not in one of the mansions. We're not rich!
]
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
'Driver Training' used to be taught in most all high schools. In fact at the school I attended, if you passed the course with a certain qualifying grade, you got a discount on your auto insurance when you got your license. And at my school, they were just getting into 'Sex Education' too as an elective course.
At first I was anxious to take the 'Driver ED' since I was looking forward to my license and first car, but I didn't see any need for the 'Sex ED' ........................ until I found out they were both taught in the same cars !!!!!!! (circa 1964-5
)Yeh, uh huuuh ................... you know you at least smiled, maybe even laughed out loud!!! You know you did !!!
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Back then where I went to school, (circa 1964-5) it made no difference on the age at which you could be licensed ............. the law was at 14 you could get a "Restricted" license. Meant you had to have a licensed driver over the age of 21 in the front seat with you, and no driving beyond sundown. Then you could get a regular license at 16, IE: No restrictions.
The 'Driver Ed' simply helped you with a little deduction in insurance and hopefully made you a little safer driver.
The 'Driver Ed' simply helped you with a little deduction in insurance and hopefully made you a little safer driver.
^ The course does still help with insurance coverage/premiums, @jumpinjoe .... or at least that's supposedly the case, but who knows, with these insurance companies.
Ohio laws currently also still dictate that those who are under 16 and on the learner's permit must have a licensed driver aboard.
And even when the teen reaches 16 and is issued their first license, it is still only granted on a probationary basis:
Thinking back to when I was licensed (I'll do the math right this time, Sir, I promise, LOL! ) some three decades ago in Georgia (Fulton County), once we were granted the full license at 16, there weren't any further restrictions/stipulations. My wife - same age - was licensed in Ohio, and she remembers having had to take "Driver's Ed," in order to gain that initial licensure.
I'm looking to enroll the little one in defensive driving and vehicle-handling courses, too. I think we may make a little vacation out of it some time and visit my parents in Atlanta, and will likely do a session at the ATL Porsche Experience for some giggles. To be honest, I'd like to do the coursework with her, as it's been forever since I'd spent any time on the track or skidpad......
Ohio laws currently also still dictate that those who are under 16 and on the learner's permit must have a licensed driver aboard.
And even when the teen reaches 16 and is issued their first license, it is still only granted on a probationary basis:
OhioBMV said:
Thinking back to when I was licensed (I'll do the math right this time, Sir, I promise, LOL!
) some three decades ago in Georgia (Fulton County), once we were granted the full license at 16, there weren't any further restrictions/stipulations. My wife - same age - was licensed in Ohio, and she remembers having had to take "Driver's Ed," in order to gain that initial licensure. I'm looking to enroll the little one in defensive driving and vehicle-handling courses, too. I think we may make a little vacation out of it some time and visit my parents in Atlanta, and will likely do a session at the ATL Porsche Experience for some giggles.
To be honest, I'd like to do the coursework with her, as it's been forever since I'd spent any time on the track or skidpad......
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
I don't know about now, but back in the '70s 1 could get a hardship license at 14 (don't know all the requirements) and somehow my older brother by 3 years had 1. He was also driving a semi (tractor trailer, air brakes and 80k lbs capacity). Back then at 16 you could drive any class C vehicle and pull a trailer loaded. We don't have any driver Ed in my small town anymore and you used too be able to take it in school (high school) and it was a simester course which was fine. I started driving when I was 4. Drove the feed truck (pick-up) to feed the cattle. Put the trans in granny gear and made it slow and steady.
^ I let my daughter drive my vehicle at the private range that I belong to.
At first, she balked at the idea - "But dad, I'm not old enough to...."
I cut her off with: "Do you think that boy over there has a license to drive that tractor?" as I pointed across the road at a farm. She understood, and stepped up behind the wheel.
At first, she balked at the idea - "But dad, I'm not old enough to...."
I cut her off with: "Do you think that boy over there has a license to drive that tractor?" as I pointed across the road at a farm.
She understood, and stepped up behind the wheel.Lock n' Load
Custom
I got my Learner's Permit at 16 and my DL on the first try about a month later. My Dad was my instructor. 4 months later, I took the required Driver's Ed course at my high school during the summer. On the first day, the instructor took me out on what he called an "evaluation drive". We cruised around in the unmarked school car for about an hour and he never said a word the entire time other than to give me navigation directions which included many different roads and traffic volumes. When we returned to the school parking lot, he asked, "Who taught you to drive?" I answered, "My Dad." He said, "Tell your Dad he did a great job, there's nothing left for me to teach you." For the remainder of my sessions, I drove him around to do his errands or he treated me to lunch. Up until this point, I knew him only as a Science teacher and he was a really good one. At my last session, he said, "Just keep doing what your Dad taught you and you'll never have a problem." So far, 57 years later, he was right.
I wanted to come back to this one to give credit where it's due.
I couldn't remember where I'd heard that - until I recently stumbled on another video that referenced it.
The late great George Carlin:
George Carlin was right: Other drivers are 'idiots' and 'maniacs'
A Michelin survey found that most Americans don't trust other drivers while 81 percent remain confident in their own abilities behind the wheel.
I grew up in the country and there wasn't much traffic on the roads back then. Shoot , even the hardroad , ( highway to you young whippersnappers ) had very little traffic. After I got my license , my youngest B-I-L ( the racer ) taught me how to drive.
I have been sideways at 115 MPH 3 times in my younger years and was able to drive out of trouble each time. Now the fact of what I was doing before that sideways skid started does not escape me. However having the ability to handle skids at that speed helped me to avoid several wrecks at normal posted limits throughout the passing years.
TsiWRX spoke of signing his youngster up for defensive driving and handling courses and I think that is a wonderful idea. I have always said that driver training should involve a skid pad and be more intense training.
I have been sideways at 115 MPH 3 times in my younger years and was able to drive out of trouble each time. Now the fact of what I was doing before that sideways skid started does not escape me. However having the ability to handle skids at that speed helped me to avoid several wrecks at normal posted limits throughout the passing years.
TsiWRX spoke of signing his youngster up for defensive driving and handling courses and I think that is a wonderful idea. I have always said that driver training should involve a skid pad and be more intense training.