So I’m going to a outdoor gun range
- Thread starter Bravo619
- Start date
I call Baltimore my home port, too.
Beechfield Elementary, '84 through '86. We lived in the Irvington neighborhood of Baltimore City. I went to school at Hopkins, and often commuted to the medical campus by public transportation.
I absolutely agree that those who commit murder and other violent felonies should be ripped of their Rights as Citizens.
But until they do so -in part because I grew up in inner-city Baltimore- I absolutely believe in the principle that the 2A enshrines the Right to armed self-defense for *_everyone_*. That it is precisely because there is evil in this world that the 2A exists: to enumerate that Right for armed self-defense for all, so that we can all legally have the same access to the tools of self-defense that those who come by it illegally already have access to, so that we stand on equal ground for that fight of our lives.
Just as I can't ask a dog not to use his teeth nor a cat his claws when they have to fight: I do not believe that as human beings, we should be limited in how we fight, when we need to defend ourselves, either.
I do not believe that human Rights should be limited by laws.
While I do believe that firearms training for all gun-owners would be great, my core belief is that such training cannot and should not be mandated because, in some instances, the ones who most need this equalizer to face their threats are caught-out by circumstances that are beyond their control and may not have the ability (for whatever reason), to undertake such training. Similarly, what is "sufficient" training? I submit that this is itself an untenable concept, and that we each will have different takes on this variable alone: to wit, as a law-abiding civilian, I have completed hundreds of hours of defensive firearms as well as other related training (legal, medical, etc.). I admit to having had more training than most, but at the same time, I personally know of other ordinary citizens just like me who have had -and I kid y'all not- training that exceed mine by orders of MAGNITUDE. In their eyes -rightfully so- I may as well be a totally inept Fudd.
Yes, there have been -and will be- tragic and unfortunate instances where innocents have been hurt, maimed, or even killed due to mistakes that could have been mitigated or even eliminated by appropriate training. But to take the words of so many these days, "your discomfort does not overrule my rights." The fact of the matter is that there are many more instances of successful defensive use of firearms -by untrained individuals from the elderly to teens- than such accidents and acts of negligence. While we typically only see the former in popular mass-media, tales of the latter are well documented in pro-2A sources (and are often, if not always, confirmed by buried leads in that same media).
Freedom is not synonymous with "freedom from risk," and those who take on the rallying cry of "freedom" and "rights" must understand the deep implications of these words, even as some of their more profound implications may make us uncomfortable.
Haroldg48
Operator
I
I am have been in NC since 2003. I have a CC permit and am an NRA certified Range Safety Officer. I shoot almost every day...pistols and rifles. I belong to gun clubs and pro 2A organizations. I have sworn an oath at least on 4 occasions to protect and defend the Constitution. I still do that. I've been in law enforcement. I know who the problems are.
I think people are taking my position to be more liberal than it is. I am not for mandatory formal training to own a pistol, or to keep one in your house, or even carry openly (although it would be nice if every gun owner was trained). I am for common sense rules that prevent those with an issue (like those listed on a 4473) who come into possession of a pistol from carrying concealed.
There is no sense arguing about it here among fellow firearms enthusiasts. It's what I think. Given the choice to vote for someone who supports the 2A, but disagrees withy opinion, and someone who is anti-gun (or pro-gun control..same thing), I vote pro gun...screw the details. By the way, they could stop the BS in Baltimore, Chicago and elsewhere with a simple 'stop and frisk' law enforcement policy. If they did that in Baltimore or Chicago on a weekend they could collect an arsenal that some countries would envy. But then we'd have another group saying their rights were being infringed and no politician has the cajones to do that.
I lived in Hamilton/Parkville area and am significantly older than you. I went to Hopkins undergrad an the late 60s before the Army called. Moved away to the MD DC suburbs until retiring from my DC job in 2000. By then MD gun rights were being stripped from trained, responsible citizens. It is worse now.I call Baltimore my home port, too.
I went to school at Hopkins, and often commuted to the medical campus by public transportation.
I absolutely agree that those who commit murder and other violent felonies should be ripped of their Rights as Citizens.
But until they do so -in part because I grew up in inner-city Baltimore- I absolutely believe in the principle that the 2A enshrines the Right to armed self-defense for *_everyone_*. That it is precisely because there is evil in this world that the 2A exists: to enumerate that Right for armed self-defense for all, so that we can all legally have the same access to the tools of self-defense that those who come by it illegally already have access to, so that we stand on equal ground for that fight of our lives.
Just as I can't ask a dog not to use his teeth nor a cat his claws when they have to fight: I do not believe that as human beings, we should be limited in how we fight, when we need to defend ourselves, either.
I do not believe that human Rights should be limited by laws.
While I do believe that firearms training for all gun-owners would be great, my core belief is that such training cannot and should not be mandated because, in some instances, the ones who most need this equalizer to face their threats are caught-out by circumstances that are beyond their control and may not have the ability (for whatever reason), to undertake such training. Similarly, what is "sufficient" training? I submit that this is itself an untenable concept, and that we each will have different takes on this variable alone: to wit, as a law-abiding civilian, I have completed hundreds of hours of defensive firearms as well as other related training (legal, medical, etc.). I admit to having had more training than most, but at the same time, I personally know of other ordinary citizens just like me who have had -and I kid y'all not- training that exceed mine by orders of MAGNITUDE. In their eyes -rightfully so- I may as well be a totally inept Fudd.
Yes, there have been -and will be- tragic and unfortunate instances where innocents have been hurt, maimed, or even killed due to mistakes that could have been mitigated or even eliminated by appropriate training. But to take the words of so many these days, "your discomfort does not overrule my rights." The fact of the matter is that there are many more instances of successful defensive use of firearms -by untrained individuals from the elderly to teens- than such accidents and acts of negligence. While we typically only see the former in popular mass-media, tales of the latter are well documented in pro-2A sources (and are often, if not always, confirmed by buried leads in that same media).
Freedom is not synonymous with "freedom from risk," and those who take on the rallying cry of "freedom" and "rights" must understand the deep implications of these words, even as some of their more profound implications may make us uncomfortable.
I am have been in NC since 2003. I have a CC permit and am an NRA certified Range Safety Officer. I shoot almost every day...pistols and rifles. I belong to gun clubs and pro 2A organizations. I have sworn an oath at least on 4 occasions to protect and defend the Constitution. I still do that. I've been in law enforcement. I know who the problems are.
I think people are taking my position to be more liberal than it is. I am not for mandatory formal training to own a pistol, or to keep one in your house, or even carry openly (although it would be nice if every gun owner was trained). I am for common sense rules that prevent those with an issue (like those listed on a 4473) who come into possession of a pistol from carrying concealed.
There is no sense arguing about it here among fellow firearms enthusiasts. It's what I think. Given the choice to vote for someone who supports the 2A, but disagrees withy opinion, and someone who is anti-gun (or pro-gun control..same thing), I vote pro gun...screw the details. By the way, they could stop the BS in Baltimore, Chicago and elsewhere with a simple 'stop and frisk' law enforcement policy. If they did that in Baltimore or Chicago on a weekend they could collect an arsenal that some countries would envy. But then we'd have another group saying their rights were being infringed and no politician has the cajones to do that.
Keystone19250
SAINT
Children waiting at a school bus stop are getting shot in Louisville, it’s getting absolutely crazy.
Bassbob
Emissary
Speaking of training, I spent all day today out at the facility where i have been training. I got there 2 hours early and helped Bill ( The instructor) set up the range and courses before the other students arrived. Then I gave him about an hour long guitar lesson, then we did a 4 hour class and after the other students left I stayed and helped him set up a 3 gun course for next Saturday. We ran through it about 5 times. Neither of us has actually ever done 3 gun and Saturday will not be a formal competition or anything, though there will be prizes. And barbecue. I'm very much looking forward to it.I call Baltimore my home port, too.
I went to school at Hopkins, and often commuted to the medical campus by public transportation.
I absolutely agree that those who commit murder and other violent felonies should be ripped of their Rights as Citizens.
But until they do so -in part because I grew up in inner-city Baltimore- I absolutely believe in the principle that the 2A enshrines the Right to armed self-defense for *_everyone_*. That it is precisely because there is evil in this world that the 2A exists: to enumerate that Right for armed self-defense for all, so that we can all legally have the same access to the tools of self-defense that those who come by it illegally already have access to, so that we stand on equal ground for that fight of our lives.
Just as I can't ask a dog not to use his teeth nor a cat his claws when they have to fight: I do not believe that as human beings, we should be limited in how we fight, when we need to defend ourselves, either.
I do not believe that human Rights should be limited by laws.
While I do believe that firearms training for all gun-owners would be great, my core belief is that such training cannot and should not be mandated because, in some instances, the ones who most need this equalizer to face their threats are caught-out by circumstances that are beyond their control and may not have the ability (for whatever reason), to undertake such training. Similarly, what is "sufficient" training? I submit that this is itself an untenable concept, and that we each will have different takes on this variable alone: to wit, as a law-abiding civilian, I have completed hundreds of hours of defensive firearms as well as other related training (legal, medical, etc.). I admit to having had more training than most, but at the same time, I personally know of other ordinary citizens just like me who have had -and I kid y'all not- training that exceed mine by orders of MAGNITUDE. In their eyes -rightfully so- I may as well be a totally inept Fudd.
Yes, there have been -and will be- tragic and unfortunate instances where innocents have been hurt, maimed, or even killed due to mistakes that could have been mitigated or even eliminated by appropriate training. But to take the words of so many these days, "your discomfort does not overrule my rights." The fact of the matter is that there are many more instances of successful defensive use of firearms -by untrained individuals from the elderly to teens- than such accidents and acts of negligence. While we typically only see the former in popular mass-media, tales of the latter are well documented in pro-2A sources (and are often, if not always, confirmed by buried leads in that same media).
Freedom is not synonymous with "freedom from risk," and those who take on the rallying cry of "freedom" and "rights" must understand the deep implications of these words, even as some of their more profound implications may make us uncomfortable.
Then I got home and my enhanced safety for the Mossberg 500 that I had ordered from NDZ had finally arrived after the post office misplaced it at someone else's address for a few weeks. Apparently they had to stop their mail to get them to return the package. And when I got it it had been opened. All the stuff was in there though so I went out to the shed, cleaned my guns and put the new safety on. So it's been a full and very enjoyable day for me.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Headed to the outdoor range tomorrow.
Lots of new scopes swapped around & my rifles need a fresh check of sighting in. plus just want to exercise some rifles I rarely shoot for awhile
Line up:
I’ll need my collapsible wagon
Wby .270 Win
Wby 270 mag
FN Fal para
M1a
6.5 Grendel
5.56 SBR suppressed
.308 Saint Victor
Lots of new scopes swapped around & my rifles need a fresh check of sighting in. plus just want to exercise some rifles I rarely shoot for awhile
Line up:
I’ll need my collapsible wagon
Wby .270 Win
Wby 270 mag
FN Fal para
M1a
6.5 Grendel
5.56 SBR suppressed
.308 Saint Victor
Bear007
Custom
Wow ... looks like you're going to have a great day. You already had some impressive scopes, wonder what you have that tops them?Headed to the outdoor range tomorrow.
Lots of new scopes swapped around & my rifles need a fresh check of sighting in. plus just want to exercise some rifles I rarely shoot for awhile
Line up:
I’ll need my collapsible wagon
Wby .270 Win
Wby 270 mag
FN Fal para
M1a
6.5 Grendel
5.56
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Working also to ensure thermals are sighted in .. one seemed off the other nightWow ... looks like you're going to have a great day. You already had some impressive scopes, wonder what you have that tops them?
We're separated in years, but definitely have a lot in common!
It would have been interesting to have lived through that time-period in MD. I still have a number of family ties in MD, and make the jaunt between CLE and Balto./DC-suburbs relatively frequently - having to make the trip disarmed is something that makes me pass a sigh.....
I see where you are, now.
It's hard for the nuances to get fully aired-out via this way of communicating - we definitely often don't get the full picture, and may in reality only stand inches from each others instead of miles.Indeed, the problems we face both inside our community as firearms enthusiasts as well as outside of it (as a fellow Hopkins grad, I'm sure you understand where this comes from, even though by your years you weren't subject to being chased off the field when Bloomberg's chopper needed a place to land
) are complex, with enforcement among the multitude of issues that we must tackle.I also find it very hard to reconcile my own often conflicting views of enforcement, training, rights restoration, etc. - and much as you wrote that your position isn't nearly as liberal as you'd made it seem to be in your earlier post, I also believe that it is more than fair to say that my world-view also isn't necessarily as conservative/libertarian as my previous post likely makes it seem.
Let's do a pit beef at Chaps and discuss this more in-depth?
Or maybe a sandwich at the AMR I snack bar (if that's still a thing)? We can swap stories of what the Homewood Campus was like when you were there, and I'll hopefully return the favor with stories of what it was like in the mid-late 90s (my wife and I met there).
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