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Springfield Trapdoor

Blackrock52

Blackrock52

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Looking for someone/anyone knowledgeable about Trapdoors -- esp the 1884 version. I found one that has all the proper markings on barrel, breech, and stock. Except, when you open the swing away on the butt the normal channels for the 3 piece cleaning rod do not exist. Is this possible? Is the stock/firearm a fake?
 
I'm not a Trapdoor expert, but have researched several of them recently for the museum where I volunteer. You mention "all the proper markings." I assume the lock has US over Springfield with a spread winged eagle and 1884. Proof marks on the barrel. US/MODEL/1884 on the front of breech. What's the serial number? Does it have the rod bayonet?

I had a confusing Model 1884 in hand with a serial number far outside the range reported in references. An expert said that was unusual but the frame might have been in hiding and showed up for our rifle.

There were minor variations within each model. Can't answer your question but odd guns show up now and then.

If you get a better answer, please post it here. I am curious.
 
Inusuit said:
I'm not a Trapdoor expert, but have researched several of them recently for the museum where I volunteer. You mention "all the proper markings." I assume the lock has US over Springfield with a spread winged eagle and 1884. Proof marks on the barrel. US/MODEL/1884 on the front of breech. What's the serial number? Does it have the rod bayonet?

I had a confusing Model 1884 in hand with a serial number far outside the range reported in references. An expert said that was unusual but the frame might have been in hiding and showed up for our rifle.

There were minor variations within each model. Can't answer your question but odd guns show up now and then.

If you get a better answer, please post it here. I am curious.
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It is a carbine. It has the groove and latch release for a ramrod but no ramrod present. The serial number is 475*** indicating manufacture in early 1890 which jives with the stock cartouche.
 
Thank you for that information. Again, no expert here. Carbines were issued to calvary units without under-barrel rods, so unusual that your firearm has the groove and latch. Probably should have the holes in the butt for the three piece rod. In the Little Bighorn fight at Reno Hill, one solder had a rod and passed it around for other to use in ejecting jammed copper cases from their carbines.

Here's an interesting link about carbines:

www.rifleshootermag.com

Model 1879 Trapdoor Springfield Carbine - RifleShooter

Despite detractors' comments, this handy little single-shot rifle was one of the best arms of its era.
www.rifleshootermag.com www.rifleshootermag.com

Please let me know if you find out more about your firearm.
 
Inusuit said:
Thank you for that information. Again, no expert here. Carbines were issued to calvary units without under-barrel rods, so unusual that your firearm has the groove and latch. Probably should have the holes in the butt for the three piece rod. In the Little Bighorn fight at Reno Hill, one solder had a rod and passed it around for other to use in ejecting jammed copper cases from their carbines.

Here's an interesting link about carbines:

www.rifleshootermag.com

Model 1879 Trapdoor Springfield Carbine - RifleShooter

Despite detractors' comments, this handy little single-shot rifle was one of the best arms of its era.
www.rifleshootermag.com www.rifleshootermag.com

Please let me know if you find out more about your firearm.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link...interesting article. Of note, the serial number indicates that the rifle was manufactured in first quarter of 1890 but the inspectors cartouche is "SWP 1889" and has no channel for the 3 piece cleaning rod and case removal tool. Further, while there are screws for the saddle ring attachment piece there is no inletting around the screws for the ring base. Suspect this is a cobbled gun...
 
I'm tending to agree with you and Recusant that you have an infantry rifle modified to resemble carbine configuration, i.e., a cobbled gun. The rifles had screws in the same place as those for the ring bar on carbines.

When I started my work as a firearms historian for our museum, I was attracted to the "safe queens" in pristine condition in the collection. My supervisor led me to appreciate those guns with a history. We may not know the details, but a gun that has been used as intended and shows evidence of hard use has it own appeal. And in this case, you and I have learned some things from the exchange. So thanks for your input and information.
 
Blackrock52 said:
Looking for someone/anyone knowledgeable about Trapdoors -- esp the 1884 version. I found one that has all the proper markings on barrel, breech, and stock. Except, when you open the swing away on the butt the normal channels for the 3 piece cleaning rod do not exist. Is this possible? Is the stock/firearm a fake?
Click to expand...
I also found this and thought it might offer some more information:

According to the web search results, some Springfield trapdoor rifles were cut down into carbines by civilians or gunsmiths, but not by the army. The original carbines made by Springfield Armory had some distinctive features, such as a C marked rear sight, a sling bar, and a shorter barrel length of 22 inches. The cut down rifles may lack these features or have evidence of modifications, such as a hole or a plug in the front end of the stock. If there is a hole in the wood, that is indicative of a cut down rifle stock. The hole was for a rifle's cleaning rod. You can find more information about the history and characteristics of the Springfield trapdoor rifles and carbines in the following links:

 
Finished today going through Joe Poyer's Trapdoor book. It is now clear that this is a cut down rifle. While the breech is clearly marked "US Model 1884" it does not have a Buffington sight. It is an 1879 rear sight, 3rd form, 4th variation. It is stamped with a "C". The barrel has proper stamps but the barrel/breech alignment mark is not present which says a non-military conversion...it has a Marble Co front sight and peep sight added which is still in business and about 60 miles south of me!! Ironic... Here is a link to the Marble Co. An interesting 1 page history. http://www.marblearms.com/about.html
So all in all, a cobbled gun by persons unknown....if she shoots well, I'll keep it for a fun gun!

Thank you for the links...I will definitely research them!
 
When I did shoot my trapdoor I used Georgia Arms lead cowboy ammo. The orginial barrels are soft steel and modern ammo will eat them up. I checked and Georgia Arms is closed due to a recent fire, but hope to reopen soon.
 
Thanks for the info. BP gunk gets everywhere. Been trying to find/figure a way to clean a trapdoor without a major disassembly...YT videos are amazingly no help on this subject...
 
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