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Steel vs. Polymer Guide Rods

wmg1299

wmg1299

Professional
I decided to expand my at-home gunsmithing from just sight and grip replacements/upgrades. I did my first trigger replacement two weeks ago when I installed an Apex Tactical trigger in my S&W SD40VE. I wanted start with one of my cheaper guns in case I completely botched the process, but everything went well.

The Apex trigger was a vast improvement over the stock trigger, and I was thinking of upgrading to a steel guide rod from NDZ. I've read several conflicting posts and reviews concerning SDVE guide rods. Multiple posts reported the stock polymer guide rod warping and getting chewed up after fairly low round counts. Several posts from 2015 and 2017 claimed that steel guide rods from Galloway Precision had caused frame or slide damage, but forum posts from 2019 stated that the NDZ guide rod had improved felt recoil without causing any damage (Galloway no longer offers an SDVE guide rod assembly).

Some sources state that S&W only used a polymer guide rod in the SDVE series to save money. Other sources state that S&W has been in the firearm business for generations, and they would have used a steel guide rod if it would have offered better performance than polymer. Do any users here know if installing a steel guide rod with an 18-pound spring will damage an SD40VE? It's definitely one of my cheaper guns, but I would never knowingly do anything to damage any of my firearms.
 
I’m sure you will read or hear different answers. For just changing on concerns of reliability the polymer guide rod is just fine. The argument, not from you just what everyone brings up when they talk of plastic (polymer) is that it cost effective, and sure a company wants to do more with less while also ensuring reliability to not deal with returns and losing customer base. Polymer is very durable. Having said that if your wanting to run a steel rod for say weight I’d look at a tungsten rod. I wouldn’t say it will help and I wouldn’t say it would hurt.


If changing out a guide rod to get accuracy if what one is after that won’t do it whereas most swap those out for weight. I have one on one of my Glocks, no complaints. Upgraded the trigger, put a plug in the magwell and changed the guide rod, as I was looking for speed and getting back/staying on target. The gun was accurate right outta the box. But even that, a shot timer and someone like Rob Leatham is where you would really notice those “upgrades” from speed.
 
I'm personally not a fan of polymer guide rods. My Walther has a polymer guide rod and it seems stout enough. I considered changing it. Most people switch them for recoil reasons and by all accounts I can find there is no reliability/quality reason to change them. Still, if it was a carry gun I would change it I think.

Not all polymer guide rods are created equal either. The one in my Q5 Match is a lot sturdier than the ones you'll find in a Taurus G2. My Q5 never fails either, unlike a G2. Coincidence ? Maybe, but I doubt it. To be fair though the G2 suffers from some tolerance stacking. That is I think they run fine with the polymer RSA after you get rid of all the other problems.
 
Keystone19250 said:
Although I don’t remember for certain I want to say it was the S&W M&P Shield I had had a polymer guid rod, never thought much about it back then as the gun shot ok without a ton of issues I will say now I wouldn’t buy a gun that didn’t have a steel guide rod.
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I don't think so brother. I have a couple Shields and they all have steel guide rods. Unless they changed them before I bought my first one.
 
Pitdogg2 said:
My sons Walther came with a polymer guide rod, it failed within 500 rds. I bought a steel replacement and it's been ticking like a Timex now for several years.

If my gun came with one I'd be finding a replacement 15 minutes after I bought it.
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That's odd. None of the Walther fan boys have had any issues and I have a couple thousand rounds through mine now with no issues. I still kinda want to change it anyway just on principle and if it was anything other than a range gun I sure as hell would.
 
Bassbob said:
That's odd. None of the Walther fan boys have had any issues and I have a couple thousand rounds through mine now with no issues. I still kinda want to change it anyway just on principle and if it was anything other than a range gun I sure as hell would.
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Walther PPQ is the model. Its more common than you think.

This company has made a business out of it. I can vouch for it. Top quality has worked flawless.

ssguiderods.com

Walther PPQ-M2/PDP Stainless Steel Guide Rod • Stainless Steel Guide Rods

This is a stainless steel guide rod for a Walther PPQ-M2 made out of 304 stainless steel.
ssguiderods.com ssguiderods.com
 
Pitdogg2 said:
Walther PPQ is the model. Its more common than you think.

This company has made a business out of it. I can vouch for it. Top quality has worked flawless.

ssguiderods.com

Walther PPQ-M2/PDP Stainless Steel Guide Rod • Stainless Steel Guide Rods

This is a stainless steel guide rod for a Walther PPQ-M2 made out of 304 stainless steel.
ssguiderods.com ssguiderods.com
Click to expand...


This is a topic I have actually researched pretty heavily. There are actually more people who complain about problems with the Sprinco unit than the factory RSA. It does say something that Walther themselves offer a tungsten version, though it is likely to appease people with preconceived misgivings about the use of plastic for a guide rod. BT makes a steel RSA for about $40 too. I hemmed and hawed about replacing the factory RSA, all the while still shooting the gun regularly. I have no issues with recoil and I am not a competition shooter. Next thing I know I am up over 2k rounds through this gun. It's nearly universally recommended to replace the RSA on all striker fired handguns at 5k rounds. Assuming no problems before then, when it comes time to replace the factory RSA I will not being going with another plastic one. Probably I will go with the tungsten RSA directly from Walther, but the BT unit is half the price. We'll see.
 
Once upon a time, the military upgraded the stainless guide rods on the M9/M92 to polymer.

Reason being steel guide rods can get bent and lock up the gun. Polymer flex and return to shape.

I’ve got no problems with polymer guide rods. Seems to be a whole lotta todo about squat.
 
wmg1299 said:
I decided to expand my at-home gunsmithing from just sight and grip replacements/upgrades. I did my first trigger replacement two weeks ago when I installed an Apex Tactical trigger in my S&W SD40VE. I wanted start with one of my cheaper guns in case I completely botched the process, but everything went well.

The Apex trigger was a vast improvement over the stock trigger, and I was thinking of upgrading to a steel guide rod from NDZ. I've read several conflicting posts and reviews concerning SDVE guide rods. Multiple posts reported the stock polymer guide rod warping and getting chewed up after fairly low round counts. Several posts from 2015 and 2017 claimed that steel guide rods from Galloway Precision had caused frame or slide damage, but forum posts from 2019 stated that the NDZ guide rod had improved felt recoil without causing any damage (Galloway no longer offers an SDVE guide rod assembly).

Some sources state that S&W only used a polymer guide rod in the SDVE series to save money. Other sources state that S&W has been in the firearm business for generations, and they would have used a steel guide rod if it would have offered better performance than polymer. Do any users here know if installing a steel guide rod with an 18-pound spring will damage an SD40VE? It's definitely one of my cheaper guns, but I would never knowingly do anything to damage any of my firearms.
Click to expand...
well i was VERY disappointed in my new Beretta 92 FS.....and here is why..

1) PLASTIC trigger.

2) PLASTIC guide rod

for a gun that is high dollar (cost to me was $650)

so i went and got (from Beretta) a steel trigger and steel guide rod.
trigger and guide rod cost me about an extra ($30??)

like why...????

now, i NEVER replaced a trigger spring before, and frankly glad i bought the HK trigger return spring pliers

they look something like this...i paid about $12.00......but if you go to thier website, the pair they have is over $100???
1650809751032.png


in sharp contrast, my $450 Girsan Regard (Beretta clone), had a steel trigger and steel guide rod..>!!!!!!
 
HansGruber said:
Once upon a time, the military upgraded the stainless guide rods on the M9/M92 to polymer.

Reason being steel guide rods can get bent and lock up the gun. Polymer flex and return to shape.

I’ve got no problems with polymer guide rods. Seems to be a whole lotta todo about squat.
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In my son case the Walther had a plastic capture screw that holds the spring rod together. It failed. Without it the gun will not work. Unlike the Beretta that captures the spring against the slide like old Rugers and others.
This Walther and some others in their brand are depending on polymer rod and screw. There's a lot of spring pressure on the screw.

He's had no problems with the replacement and has run thousands of rounds through it since replacement, not one hiccup.
 
Pitdogg2 said:
In my son case the Walther had a plastic capture screw that holds the spring rod together. It failed. Without it the gun will not work. Unlike the Beretta that captures the spring against the slide like old Rugers and others.
This Walther and some others in their brand are depending on polymer rod and screw. There's a lot of spring pressure on the screw.

He's had no problems with the replacement and has run thousands of rounds through it since replacement, not one hiccup.
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There were problems with those caps in the beginning. That problem has since been alleviated.
 
My wife's Shield 380 EZ has a polymer guide rod. Hasn't failed yet, but it's not been used much since .380-Auto went to $.50/round (or unobtanium until recently). Not sure if that's relevant to the earlier point about the Shields...
 
Jfal said:
My wife's Shield 380 EZ has a polymer guide rod. Hasn't failed yet, but it's not been used much since .380-Auto went to $.50/round (or unobtanium until recently). Not sure if that's relevant to the earlier point about the Shields...
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Could be. I hadn't thought about the EZ. I bought my dad one, but it's been awhile since I had it apart so I don't recall what kind of RSA is in it.
 
Pitdogg2 said:
In my son case the Walther had a plastic capture screw that holds the spring rod together. It failed. Without it the gun will not work. Unlike the Beretta that captures the spring against the slide like old Rugers and others.
This Walther and some others in their brand are depending on polymer rod and screw. There's a lot of spring pressure on the screw.

He's had no problems with the replacement and has run thousands of rounds through it since replacement, not one hiccup.
Click to expand...
So, the problem is the cap, and therefore the design, and not that it is made from polymer…
 
Does the Apex trigger in the SDVE go back and hit a wall..then break ? I'm no trigger snob, but i have one that has just been taking up space in the safe for yrs because the trigger sucks so bad.
 
Bassbob said:
There were problems with those caps in the beginning. That problem has since been alleviated.
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Interesting as when he reached out to Walther he was asked to buy another at $50. That is why we went steel.

HansGruber said:
So, the problem is the cap, and therefore the design, and not that it is made from polymer…
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Correct is was what held the captured spring assembly together.
I'm sorry but my bit of OCD is still a bit leery of polymer in that location that takes such a beating in use.
 
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