Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled Suppressing the XD-M Elite Tactical OSP and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/suppressing-the-xd-m-elite-tactical-osp/.
Suppressing the XD-M Elite Tactical OSP
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
Keystone19250
SAINT
Great article, if I was ever going to get a suppresser it would be for my AR10 .308
i was recently at the range with my brother in law who had this same setup (xdm elite 9mm and Silencer company omega 9 k). the weapon kept trying to double feed, looked like a stovepipe but it was a live round followed by another elevated half way out of mag. this malfunction would happen 3-4 times a mag. we did try a different mag, same results. we did not take the can off (idk why), but seems like it was too much pressure. anyone have ideas?
Did the pistol seem to have an excessive amount of recoil? If there was excessive back pressure there would also be excessive recoil. The weight of the can on the firearm would limit the amount of muzzle rise but you would still feel the recoil response pushing back into your hand.
I'd advise taking the can off and also trying some different ammo to rule out ammo or the can.
A heavier round like 147gr works best in most suppressed 9mm firearms.
thanks. we will try this ammo next time we trouble shoot
By the recommendation of this article, I bought the Sightmark Mini Shot M-Spec, and also the mounting plate XD5071 as indicated in the article. But the size of the screws with the Mini Shot M-Spec do not match the female receiver holes on the mounting plate. I have called Springfield to ask for the specs of the mounting plate, and the customer service rep was unable to provide the specs (though she has sent me a packet of screws for their Vortex red dot product, which match the mounting plate). Anyone here know the screw specs that will allow me to mount the Mini Shot M-Spec to the XD5071 mounting plate?
RickAnderson
Custom
I don't have a suppressor, but I have considered getting one and read up on it, and I see no discussion of the decoupler/piston on the can....
The mass of the can affects the recoil and slide cycling, force equals mass times acceleration. You increase the mass significantly with a can but use the same force to cycle the slide, that means less acceleration, i.e. you slide moves slower.
Pistol suppressors are suppose to have a decoupler/piston that is a sleeve with a spring, this decouples the mass of the suppressor from the barrel locked to the slide, so that the impulse from firing gets the slide and barrel locked to it moving, but the can stays still and slides on the sleeve and spring, to be pulled back in place after the slide cycles.
I "think" these pistons sometimes need adjustment/tuning to get the operation right. At least they appear to be adjustable in the ones I have looked at....
So, did the can on your brothers in law pistol have a piston/decoupler? And did you try adjusting it to fix the feed issues, that may be caused by the acceleration and speed of the slide changed by the Can?
I shoot with pistol cans and you are right about needing a booster spring for non fixed barrel firearms. I'm not aware of any way to adjust or tune the piston spring in a suppressor though.
Some suppressors may only come with a fixed barrel spacer and not a spring booster needed for shooting non fixed barrel pistols. Typically most suppressor manufactures will at least off the option for a spring booster.
RickAnderson
Custom
According to the Parts Diagram for my Vortex Viper for the Springfield OSP models they use two screws of #6-48x1/4".
I think I got 5/16" screws in the Vortex box, that are for mounting it on the picatinny rail adapter it comes with, I had to file the screws down a small amount so they did not go through the mounting plate and bottom out on the slide below it. preventing it from clamping down on the sight.
I have a Vortex Viper on my SA XD-M Elite Tactical 9mm, using the SA mounting plate.
Ace Hardware stores have gun screws, I have been able to figure out the threads and find replacement screws there for my various pistol/red dot combinations. In the case with the gun screws is a plate with female holes for working with gun screws, I buy one of those as well. So when I cut or file down the screws, I screw them into the plate before cutting, after its cut to the right length, you unscrew it. The nut threads will clean up the screw threads on the cut end of the screw, so that it will screw into the mounting plate properly. If you cut a screw, the threads are often a mess at the cut, and won't screw into the nut/mount plate, get cross threaded, etc.... ...so you definitely want to get a nut or one of those plates if you need to cut or file down the screw...
Booster, that was the name I was searching for and couldn't remember. But I've seen it also called a Piston, and it does act like a decoupler.
Yea, looking at the photos, it appeared the Booster/Decoupler has a collar screwed down on it to retain the spring, it "appeared" to me, that it could be screwed down more/less to increase/decrease spring tension. But that was my guess from a photo, and never actually holding and playing with one; perhaps its just assembled that way with no way of adjusting at all. If you can't compress/relax the spring at all, then I guess your only option is to get different rate springs and experiment. Perhaps the OP for the feed problems with a can, didn't have a Booster at all the suppressor, that wouldn't be a shocking mistake for a beginner.
The booster & piston spring is installed by removing the bottom cap of the suppressor that threads onto the barrel of the firearm and inserted then the bottom cap is threaded back in place.
If you are using the same suppressor for a fixed barrel firearm you will need to replace the booster & spring with a fixed barrel spacer which is essentially a heavy gauge tube shaped slug that fills the void between the bottom cap and the suppressor baffles.
A bottom cap on some suppressors can also be replaced with a QD mount adapter such as the common tri-lug type for faster attachment though these are mostly used in PDW sized and longer firearms.
RickAnderson
Custom
BTW, on the Red Dots....
I have:
Trijicon RMR 2
Vortex Viper
Leupold Deltapoint Pro
-and just got-
EOTECH EFLX
My favorite was the RMR, until I got the EFLX. The RMR has an auto adjust brightness mode and looks to be the toughest of all the Red Dots. The window has a blueish tint to it, and I suspect that is filter to have the dot show up in even the most severe light environments, that would wash out the dots on others.
The EFLX is sealed, so it should not encounter any problems with water, rain, snow, that is possible with the others (I've never encountered any problem, but it is possible, and some report having experienced it with their sight down until it dried out). The EFLX costs less than the RMR and Deltapoint Pro. It has a windows as large as the Delapoint Pro and the glass is clearer than the RMR. The only bad thing I can say EFLX is that the base is taller than the RMR and Viper (and many more) that makes co-witness with even suppressor height sights difficult. In the case of my SA XD-M Elite OSP 10mm, the Trijicon Suppressor Height Sights were not tall enough to co-witness, I called SA Customer Service and they sent me their Optics Height Sights that are on the XD-M Elite OSP Tactical 9mm for $25 that are tall enough. The Deltapoint pro has an even taller base and is even harder to deal with finding sights tall enough to co-witness. It only comes in black, which it is nice that I was able to find RMR in OD Green and FDE to match the pistols I installed them on. Even the Viper has a FDE model you can find exclusively at Optics Planet.
The Deltapoint Pro, while not my favorite, works just fine and does have the largest window, with the Exception of the very expensive Trijicon SRO, now the EFLX ties it in size. It comes in OD Green and FDE also. The only bad thing I can say about the Deltapoint Pro is the height of the base, seems to be the tallest of all and for many pistols there is little easy solution for iron sights to co-witness. Sure, Leupold sells a rear iron sights that mounts on the back of the red dot, but without a front sight tall enough to match it, that doesn't make much of a solution.
IMO,
The Vortex Viper (and assumably the very smiliar Venom) is the best value Red Dot, I have gotten them for as little as $169 on sale at Optics Planet, where you can also get an OPMOD version that is FDE, only at Optics Planet. I shoot just as well as any of the other red dots I own, never have a problem with it. You have to adjust the red dot intensity manually, but that is true of just about all red dots except the RMR 2. Low base like the RMR, so most suppressor height sights will be tall enough to co-witness. The glass is much clearer than the RMR, and I haven't encountered it yet, I suspect the dot can be washed out in severe light environments more than the RMR.
The Sight Mark Red Dot looks interesting, I wonder if it will be good value Red Dot like the Vortex Viper/Venoms.
I have:
Trijicon RMR 2
Vortex Viper
Leupold Deltapoint Pro
-and just got-
EOTECH EFLX
My favorite was the RMR, until I got the EFLX. The RMR has an auto adjust brightness mode and looks to be the toughest of all the Red Dots. The window has a blueish tint to it, and I suspect that is filter to have the dot show up in even the most severe light environments, that would wash out the dots on others.
The EFLX is sealed, so it should not encounter any problems with water, rain, snow, that is possible with the others (I've never encountered any problem, but it is possible, and some report having experienced it with their sight down until it dried out). The EFLX costs less than the RMR and Deltapoint Pro. It has a windows as large as the Delapoint Pro and the glass is clearer than the RMR. The only bad thing I can say EFLX is that the base is taller than the RMR and Viper (and many more) that makes co-witness with even suppressor height sights difficult. In the case of my SA XD-M Elite OSP 10mm, the Trijicon Suppressor Height Sights were not tall enough to co-witness, I called SA Customer Service and they sent me their Optics Height Sights that are on the XD-M Elite OSP Tactical 9mm for $25 that are tall enough. The Deltapoint pro has an even taller base and is even harder to deal with finding sights tall enough to co-witness. It only comes in black, which it is nice that I was able to find RMR in OD Green and FDE to match the pistols I installed them on. Even the Viper has a FDE model you can find exclusively at Optics Planet.
The Deltapoint Pro, while not my favorite, works just fine and does have the largest window, with the Exception of the very expensive Trijicon SRO, now the EFLX ties it in size. It comes in OD Green and FDE also. The only bad thing I can say about the Deltapoint Pro is the height of the base, seems to be the tallest of all and for many pistols there is little easy solution for iron sights to co-witness. Sure, Leupold sells a rear iron sights that mounts on the back of the red dot, but without a front sight tall enough to match it, that doesn't make much of a solution.
IMO,
The Vortex Viper (and assumably the very smiliar Venom) is the best value Red Dot, I have gotten them for as little as $169 on sale at Optics Planet, where you can also get an OPMOD version that is FDE, only at Optics Planet. I shoot just as well as any of the other red dots I own, never have a problem with it. You have to adjust the red dot intensity manually, but that is true of just about all red dots except the RMR 2. Low base like the RMR, so most suppressor height sights will be tall enough to co-witness. The glass is much clearer than the RMR, and I haven't encountered it yet, I suspect the dot can be washed out in severe light environments more than the RMR.
The Sight Mark Red Dot looks interesting, I wonder if it will be good value Red Dot like the Vortex Viper/Venoms.
RickAnderson
Custom
I read and see in many of the designs, the first inch or two after the muzzle, the gases are just too hot and moving to fast for the baffles, and all have some sort of hardened steel tube just to protect the can until the gases cool and slow down when it gets to the baffles....
So this is the room they install the Booster. And most of the boosters look like they are double duty, the piston being that hardened steel tube that has the rest of the apparatus built around it.
I like my SightMark Mini Shot M-Spec. It's not as nice as some of the more expensive options out there, but for my budget, it works really well. It's very similar to the Vortex varieties. I'm excited to (finally) get it mounted on my XD-M Elite OSP, just as soon as I can get the screws that fit. Thanks for the help, providing the specs for the screws, #6-48x1/4. I'm headed to the hardware store soon.
RickAnderson
Custom
In my experience, the big home improvement stores like Home Depot and Lowes don't have the same variety of fasteners as the smaller hardware specific stores like Ace or True Value. My local Ace has a Fasteners aisle with stacks of divided boxes with all sorts of one off fasteners, they have several boxes of "Gun Screws" that are Blued/Black Oxide, Torx heads and the odd ball fine threads on tiny screws, like 6-48. I doubt you're going to find the 48 threads per inch in the bins of generic #6 screws that are zinc plated and straight edged screw driver.
Bring your adapter plate with you, to test the screws in the threads.
I wouldn't recommend buying small fasteners from any hardware store as these are usually made of really poor quality steel and can break or strip a lot easier than a fastener supplied by a reputable optics company.
Places like Fastenal or Grainger can get you the screws you need in different grades of steel so you at least know what you have for quality.
Typically the same model of suppressor can come in different thread pitches depending on the manufacturers options.
Some suppressors allow the use of a different caliber specific thread mount to be switched out to allow interchangeability between other calibers.
Most commonly, a .45acp suppressor will come with a .578x28 thread mount though some manufacturers will allow for this mount to be replaced with a 1/2x28 9mm thread mount.
xbones3917d
Alpha
I'm having the same issue with my Springfield XDm Elite and the Obsidian9. I've replaced the piston spring in the Obsidian9 and tried a 20# and a 22# recoil spring (the original recoil spring is 18#). All of these were with 115 grain rounds. So far, no luck. Did your brother-in-law ever come up with a solution?