THE EDC KNIFE

[kenpomaniac1958]

I’m pretty sure everyone on this forum carries some type of firearm, but what about the EDC knife. If so, do you carry it for more less of a utility tool or to you have formal knife fighting training. Is your knife a folder or a fixed blade. When I began my duties in Special Operations our team received training in knife fighting as a matter of courses that were required. I thought I was well versed in this area until an opportunity came up that I took full advantage of. My partner and I were invited to go to Camp Pendleton to train with Force Recon Marines with an instructor who was known for being involved in numerous knife take downs. This individual was part of an unit that operated in very remote areas and their job was to hunt terrorist’s who were involved in ethnic cleansing operations and were wiping out entire villages. What was taught was so violent it was like unlike no other knife fighting class I ever took. Straight up sentry removal with stealth movement. I know what you might be thinking. Why was this necessary when these individuals were well armed. Many times this unit would engage the enemy which had more numbers than them so perimeter guards ETC. Had to to be removed without firing a shot even with suppressed weapons until it was advantageous to go into full direct action. This class focused not only on techniques of dispatching the bad guys but more importantly the approach to the target was paramount. You can imagine if detected how things could go down hill real fast. This instructor would move like a ghost until the point of contact. This class really opened my eyes into the world of knives and the violence of action that is required. I found huge respect for those who knives and just how deadly one can be when well trained. Now I should point out that in the missions I was involved in it would be extremely rare for me to deploy this kind of action. None the the less, this training is something I continue to train in for those”just in case situations”. I provided this information to you to ask just how much importance to you place on your training if you carry a knife. Do you give the same attention to knife training that you do your firearm. I think it is assumed that most people would just go to their gun to take care of the threat. Is this the correct mindset? What if you were unable to deploy your weapon, but had access to your knife. Would you know what to do, and how to properly deploy it. If you use a folder, would you be able to get the blade into battery quick enough VS a fixed blade that can be deployed once drawn. Based on this class ,I carried two different Strider brand full size fixed blades for duty and off duty I preferred to carry a smaller fixed blade because it’s faster to deploy and stronger than folding knives. Another thing to keep in mind that if you encounter someone with a knife who has training don’t think for moment that just because you have a gun you have nothing to worry about. What I learned in this class was mind blowing so take nothing for granted my friends. Let me know your thoughts on the topic.

I carry a knife all the time(usually along with a firearm). I'm left handed but my blade is on my right side. I follow the "corto/largo" (short/long) philosophy. I use the knife(usually a Karambit type knife) for close range self-defense and usually deploy the firearm(if needed) when I have the proper distance to deploy it safely. I'm a former Marine('76-'79). I have over 35 years of martial arts training including Arnis/Escrima(Filipino Martial Arts - FMA). When I started training in FMA in the 80's we did blade training with our right side. Which worked out great for me as I got to train my weak side. For my martial arts students that are right handed I train them to practice techiques with the weak side(left) once they've developed a certain level of proficiency with their strong side. It's always a good idea to train your weak side because if your strong side gets hurt you can still defend yourself. I practice dry firing drills with my weak side(right). My left side usually easily adjusts to whether I have a firearm or knife in the hand. I think it's a good idea to find knives that fit your hand right and that you can deploy easily, safely and effectively. I'm 64 years old so I prefer fixed bladed Karambit type blades so I don't have to fiddle with trying to open a blade under stress and also have good retention. There are times when I carry a non-Karambit knife but not very often. The environment I'm going to be in determines my wardrobe, knife, and firearm choices.

 

[gglass]

I have to ask, in what situation would you be that deploying your knife fast was such acritical factor the fractions of a second counted?

Why not ask the same question to those who choose a fixed-blade knife?

 

[Bassbob]

Why not ask the same question to those who choose a fixed-blade knife?

One of the most important things about a SD knife is how quickly it can be deployed.

 

[gglass]

CQC-7BW

 

[The Night Rider]

Why not ask the same question to those who choose a fixed-blade knife?

In reality the only situation that I can come up with where I would think a knife would be the appropriate defensive tool would be defending from a gun grab. And I think a quick deployment or a fixed blade (probably a Karambit) would actually be and appropriate choice

 

[Shattowalker]

I’m pretty sure everyone on this forum carries some type of firearm, but what about the EDC knife. If so, do you carry it for more less of a utility tool or to you have formal knife fighting training. Is your knife a folder or a fixed blade. When I began my duties in Special Operations our team received training in knife fighting as a matter of courses that were required. I thought I was well versed in this area until an opportunity came up that I took full advantage of. My partner and I were invited to go to Camp Pendleton to train with Force Recon Marines with an instructor who was known for being involved in numerous knife take downs. This individual was part of an unit that operated in very remote areas and their job was to hunt terrorist’s who were involved in ethnic cleansing operations and were wiping out entire villages. What was taught was so violent it was like unlike no other knife fighting class I ever took. Straight up sentry removal with stealth movement. I know what you might be thinking. Why was this necessary when these individuals were well armed. Many times this unit would engage the enemy which had more numbers than them so perimeter guards ETC. Had to to be removed without firing a shot even with suppressed weapons until it was advantageous to go into full direct action. This class focused not only on techniques of dispatching the bad guys but more importantly the approach to the target was paramount. You can imagine if detected how things could go down hill real fast. This instructor would move like a ghost until the point of contact. This class really opened my eyes into the world of knives and the violence of action that is required. I found huge respect for those who knives and just how deadly one can be when well trained. Now I should point out that in the missions I was involved in it would be extremely rare for me to deploy this kind of action. None the the less, this training is something I continue to train in for those”just in case situations”. I provided this information to you to ask just how much importance to you place on your training if you carry a knife. Do you give the same attention to knife training that you do your firearm. I think it is assumed that most people would just go to their gun to take care of the threat. Is this the correct mindset? What if you were unable to deploy your weapon, but had access to your knife. Would you know what to do, and how to properly deploy it. If you use a folder, would you be able to get the blade into battery quick enough VS a fixed blade that can be deployed once drawn. Based on this class ,I carried two different Strider brand full size fixed blades for duty and off duty I preferred to carry a smaller fixed blade because it’s faster to deploy and stronger than folding knives. Another thing to keep in mind that if you encounter someone with a knife who has training don’t think for moment that just because you have a gun you have nothing to worry about. What I learned in this class was mind blowing so take nothing for granted my friends. Let me know your thoughts on the topic.

I have had some edged weapons training and I carry a Forseti fixed blade with 3 1/2 blade and a Ontario knife XM-1 folder and if I have my sling pack I have a TOPS C.A.T. small fixed blade attached. Being to quick on the trigger can be a danger to innocents and training for that is very important and the knife is for up close and personal, at my age if in a attempted assault or strong arm robbery in a public place I would use a knife as I would probably be underestimated. Your training and abilities are left up to you but I was taught never to underestimate a opponent and only use deadly force as a last resort otherwise you may be charged.

 

[kenpomaniac1958]

Knife fighting.

Okay, specialized training like Honorman is describing aside, anyone who believes they can be trained to win knife fights against other opponents armed with knives with any degree of reliability believes in a fairy tale.

I'm not taking about surprising a guard from behind, I'm talking about squaring off with a bad guy armed with a knife in any other realistic situation anyone here on this board could find themselves in. I'm also not talking about training to minimize damage. Because I don't care what SPECOPS group you trained with, there WILL be damage and it very well could be fatal regardless of your training.

Of course we have had this discussion here before and you really don't have to take my word for it.

As far as EDC, I have multiple and what I am carrying depends on what I am doing and what job I expect my knife to be doing.

I agree sir, you don't win knife fights, you survive them. I am a martial arts instructor and worked as a bouncer and as an armed security officer. I was also a licensed bodyguard in the state of Texas. I've had knives pulled on me a few times, and every time I can remember when it happened I created distance so I wouldn't get cut as easily as if I stayed where I was. One time when a knife was pulled on me and I was working as an armed security officer I created distance and drew my weapon. The knife holder threw the knife down and ran away. It took a few minutes for my heart rate to get back to normal but nobody got hurt which is the most important thing... When I used to attend Guro Dan Inosanto Escrima seminars in the 1980's/1990's one of the knife drills we sometimes did was put on white t-shirts and use markalots like knives. Everyone who participated would get marked up. And Guro Inosanto would tell us, in a real fight with a knife those marks might be cuts where you bled out. Best to avoid going against a knife and leave the area if possible. It was pretty humbling. You usually don't hear of people who faced knives in combat or security/law enforcement work calling themselves a "knife fighter" because they know better. All of the ones I talked to called themselves "survivors". I still train in Escrima and carry a Karambit type knife, but I hope to never have to deal with a bad guy with a knife because it's scary.

 

[HansGruber]

Look, the simple fact is this:

There’s 99.99999% that you’re going to use your EDC knife for nothing more than mundane tasks like opening boxes or peeling an orange. Whipping out a big ol’ fixed blade for this is like using your EDC pistol to swat a fly.

The tough guy posturing here is getting ludicrous.

 

[Bassbob]

I agree sir, you don't win knife fights, you survive them. I am a martial arts instructor and worked as a bouncer and as an armed security officer. I was also a licensed bodyguard in the state of Texas. I've had knives pulled on me a few times, and every time I can remember when it happened I created distance so I wouldn't get cut as easily as if I stayed where I was. One time when a knife was pulled on me and I was working as an armed security officer I created distance and drew my weapon. The knife holder threw the knife down and ran away. It took a few minutes for my heart rate to get back to normal but nobody got hurt which is the most important thing... When I used to attend Guro Dan Inosanto Escrima seminars in the 1980's/1990's one of the knife drills we sometimes did was put on white t-shirts and use markalots like knives. Everyone who participated would get marked up. And Guro Inosanto would tell us, in a real fight with a knife those marks might be cuts where you bled out. Best to avoid going against a knife and leave the area if possible. It was pretty humbling. You usually don't hear of people who faced knives in combat or security/law enforcement work calling themselves a "knife fighter" because they know better. All of the ones I talked to called themselves "survivors". I still train in Escrima and carry a Karambit type knife, but I hope to never have to deal with a bad guy with a knife because it's scary.

I've had knives pulled on me and I've been stabbed twice. Not fun. While I didn't back down in those cases, these days unless I have a firearm I will immediately attempt to de-escalate and create distance.


Ha ha ha. As if I wouldn't have a firearm on me.

 

[wolfpack076]

I too train in the martial arts close to 30 yrs now and YES I am trained to defend against a knife and also how to use one. One of my MASTERS always tells us in a real knife fight more than likely you will be cut or sliced or if you try to disarm a knife armed assailant you will get cut. Best advice I ever was taught was to avoid one at all costs if possible. And in the many times I have encountered suspects with knives as a Policeman the suspect always surrendered although one time we deployed a beanbag round which solved the problem. Just my two cents...

 

[Bassbob]

Seriously though.

 

[kenpomaniac1958]

I like Karambit type knives and have several of them. I've been training with Karambits for a long time. I just ordered another Karambit from Amazon that cost less than $30. I pair the Karambit with a snubby or semi-auto.

 

[BrewIt]

I

I have three on me 99% of the time. The Gerber Prybrid gets the most use followed by the Leatherman Skeletool. The inexpensive Boker is for just in case. My theory is don't carry a knife you're not willing to lose. The boker is several years old and does take some TLC to keep it working properly but if it's lost, no big deal. I'll buy another.

 

[yotehtr]

Carry 5, different sizes, different purposes.

 

[Shattowalker]

every one has to do it's that simple, getting distance for my wife and do not havs that option anymore because of mobility and J already have survivor scares but I will not put other innocents at risk. my wife has to pull a concentrator and I am on crutches most of the timeso I will have to engage and try to control and thats why we are soft targets and hopefully help will arrive but if it doesnt then I will do what I can tstop the threat as thats my only choice

 

[bc22wm]

Wow guess I'm seriously under prepared

 

[Sld1959]

Wow guess I'm seriously under prepared

Why? Nothing at all wrong with a Buck knife they have served thier owners well for as long as I remember. Cannot say I remember anyone, well anyone we have taken seriously, say a Buck knife is an inadequate choice. And nothing wrong with a single blade.

Yes, I carry two knives. Simply because I prefer to have one available to use when a hand is holding something. Had it happen enough times that I find it handy.

 

[BrewIt]

Why? Nothing at all wrong with a Buck knife they have served thier owners well for as long as I remember. Cannot say I remember anyone, well anyone we have taken seriously, say a Buck knife is an inadequate choice. And nothing wrong with a single blade.

Yes, I carry two knives. Simply because I prefer to have one available to use when a hand is holding something. Had it happen enough times that I find it handy.

I love my Bucks. I don't carry them as they are all over 40 years old, one was my dad's and I won't take the chance of losing them.

 

[kenpomaniac1958]

I’m pretty sure everyone on this forum carries some type of firearm, but what about the EDC knife. If so, do you carry it for more less of a utility tool or to you have formal knife fighting training. Is your knife a folder or a fixed blade. When I began my duties in Special Operations our team received training in knife fighting as a matter of courses that were required. I thought I was well versed in this area until an opportunity came up that I took full advantage of. My partner and I were invited to go to Camp Pendleton to train with Force Recon Marines with an instructor who was known for being involved in numerous knife take downs. This individual was part of an unit that operated in very remote areas and their job was to hunt terrorist’s who were involved in ethnic cleansing operations and were wiping out entire villages. What was taught was so violent it was like unlike no other knife fighting class I ever took. Straight up sentry removal with stealth movement. I know what you might be thinking. Why was this necessary when these individuals were well armed. Many times this unit would engage the enemy which had more numbers than them so perimeter guards ETC. Had to to be removed without firing a shot even with suppressed weapons until it was advantageous to go into full direct action. This class focused not only on techniques of dispatching the bad guys but more importantly the approach to the target was paramount. You can imagine if detected how things could go down hill real fast. This instructor would move like a ghost until the point of contact. This class really opened my eyes into the world of knives and the violence of action that is required. I found huge respect for those who knives and just how deadly one can be when well trained. Now I should point out that in the missions I was involved in it would be extremely rare for me to deploy this kind of action. None the the less, this training is something I continue to train in for those”just in case situations”. I provided this information to you to ask just how much importance to you place on your training if you carry a knife. Do you give the same attention to knife training that you do your firearm. I think it is assumed that most people would just go to their gun to take care of the threat. Is this the correct mindset? What if you were unable to deploy your weapon, but had access to your knife. Would you know what to do, and how to properly deploy it. If you use a folder, would you be able to get the blade into battery quick enough VS a fixed blade that can be deployed once drawn. Based on this class ,I carried two different Strider brand full size fixed blades for duty and off duty I preferred to carry a smaller fixed blade because it’s faster to deploy and stronger than folding knives. Another thing to keep in mind that if you encounter someone with a knife who has training don’t think for moment that just because you have a gun you have nothing to worry about. What I learned in this class was mind blowing so take nothing for granted my friends. Let me know your thoughts on the topic.

I almost always carry a knife. My main purpose for carrying a knife is self-defense. I've been training in Escrima/Arnis since 1987. I practice knife and stick drills almost daily. I also train with a machete sometimes and keep a couple in different locations around the house.

I've seen people get stabbed and die(I grew up near the Mexican border. My dad's mechanic shop was surrounded by Cantinas. I saw lots of guys get stabbed over stupid stuff. I would also go visit my grandpa in Progreso, Mexico and saw people get stabbed there. I went to quinceaneras(girl turning 15 party) in Mexico and Texas border towns and saw people get stabbed there.

I worked in an ER as a Admin Assistant and then EMT and saw patients come in the door who had been stabbed at a park or some kind of party.

Knives are scary and most self-defense encounters are bloody and messy and can mess up your mind because of the intensity of the violence. Some of the worst stabbings I saw were a Hispanic man stabbing a woman or a man over jealousy.

With all that said, I think knowing how to use a knife is an important skill. Because many times a knife is handier than deploying a firearm, especially at closer distances. I believe the Filipino and Indonesian knife arts are some of the best. They employ simple concepts(because when using a knife, simple is best) but they can expand into more complicated aspects(using a knife to hook the head for a ****-kapala movement for example.)

I have had knives pulled on me and got slashed on my arm once. If you've never been cut it messes with your mind (seeing yourself bleed and looking at the cut).

Growing up a good friend of mine was from Mexico and he was very good with a knife. He'd been cut and had some scars. He could have a knife in his hand so fast and be on you before you knew what happened.

I have used the 21 foot rule to show some people how nasty somebody with a knife can be. I always wanted to try a Shock knife. A friend of mine told me great things about training with one. When I teach I use a dull blade or put lots of tape on the blade. We train very slowly. When I train alone I use the blade I carry and my knives are pretty sharp.

I'm a big fan of fixed blade Karambit knives(on the hip or smaller versions you can carry as a neck knife).

One final note, in Escrima we start big and then go small(no jokes please...). We start with sticks to learn proper movement and footwork, then we go to a stick and knife, then knife, then empty hand(Hubud). Most of the people I have taught one-on-one or in small groups enjoy the training immensely.

I have some students that live 500 miles or farther who still send me emails about the training and I'll sometimes make a basic short video for their eyes only. The videos are also good for me to see what bad habits I've picked up or where I need to improve. There's always room for improvement...

 

[Honorman]

I almost always carry a knife. My main purpose for carrying a knife is self-defense. I've been training in Escrima/Arnis since 1987. I practice knife and stick drills almost daily. I also train with a machete sometimes and keep a couple in different locations around the house.

I've seen people get stabbed and die(I grew up near the Mexican border. My dad's mechanic shop was surrounded by Cantinas. I saw lots of guys get stabbed over stupid stuff. I would also go visit my grandpa in Progreso, Mexico and saw people get stabbed there. I went to quinceaneras(girl turning 15 party) in Mexico and Texas border towns and saw people get stabbed there.

I worked in an ER as a Admin Assistant and then EMT and saw patients come in the door who had been stabbed at a park or some kind of party.

Knives are scary and most self-defense encounters are bloody and messy and can mess up your mind because of the intensity of the violence. Some of the worst stabbings I saw were a Hispanic man stabbing a woman or a man over jealousy.

With all that said, I think knowing how to use a knife is an important skill. Because many times a knife is handier than deploying a firearm, especially at closer distances. I believe the Filipino and Indonesian knife arts are some of the best. They employ simple concepts(because when using a knife, simple is best) but they can expand into more complicated aspects(using a knife to hook the head for a ****-kapala movement for example.)

I have had knives pulled on me and got slashed on my arm once. If you've never been cut it messes with your mind (seeing yourself bleed and looking at the cut).

Growing up a good friend of mine was from Mexico and he was very good with a knife. He'd been cut and had some scars. He could have a knife in his hand so fast and be on you before you knew what happened.

I have used the 21 foot rule to show some people how nasty somebody with a knife can be. I always wanted to try a Shock knife. A friend of mine told me great things about training with one. When I teach I use a dull blade or put lots of tape on the blade. We train very slowly. When I train alone I use the blade I carry and my knives are pretty sharp.

I'm a big fan of fixed blade Karambit knives(on the hip or smaller versions you can carry as a neck knife).

One final note, in Escrima we start big and then go small(no jokes please...). We start with sticks to learn proper movement and footwork, then we go to a stick and knife, then knife, then empty hand(Hubud). Most of the people I have taught one-on-one or in small groups enjoy the training immensely.

I have some students that live 500 miles or farther who still send me emails about the training and I'll sometimes make a basic short video for their eyes only. The videos are also good for me to see what bad habits I've picked up or where I need to improve. There's always room for improvement...

Really enjoyed your comments and I agree with your assessment of knives in the real world. In my LEO career I worked in areas where the knife culture was alive and well. I saw a lot of stabbings and handled many homicides with the knife as the weapon. As a Marine, I spent some time in the Philippines so I know what you’re talking about with that technique/discipline very effective. Your classes sound very interesting and something that I would enjoy going through. I’m always eager to learn from other people to gain more knowledge. Feel free to message me privately on anything you feel would be helpful and that I can train on. Thanks for your input.