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The Judgement Free Guide to Empty Chamber Carry (and how to fix it)

You will be surprised how amazingly fast you can chamber a round drawing from a holster. I practice non stop.
I carry empty chamber.
i have a round chambered before the firearm is even up past my belly. as it clears the holster, my other hand already has the slide and its in motion
Now, in a scenario when the attacker is at arms length, i will be at a disadvantage, but I will get a round chambered and shoot him in the family jewels as the round is chambered 😉

So—how fast are you with only one hand?

Have you ever considered the scenario that your other hand may be busy, or injured, and not available to charge your pistol?
 
I always carried my 1911 cocked & locked, but when I switched to a polymer it seemed less safe without a manual safety. It took a while to get used to.


This I get entirely.

In fact, it’s why I pretty much only carry pistols with hammers now.

I did carry Glocks for a number of years, but, to be honest, I never felt 100% comfortable carrying them—particularly IWB.

Really, the only striker fired pistols I’ve ever felt comfortable with are HK P7’s (if you know how they work, you understand why) and the Colt 1908 Vest Pocket (with a grip & thumb safety).

So, I switched to hammer fired autos and revolvers pretty much exclusively for carry. I’ll occasionally carry my VP9, but...usually that’s open, in an OWB holster, at a range day with the friends kind of thing.
 
I’ve read this on a couple of different forums...very applicable here, I think. I did not write this, either—it’s by Larry Correia (notes at bottom of the article).

Please note—this is a general commentary, not aimed at any one person, and not only applicable to carry in the chamber; it can apply to things such as only practicing at certain ranges, or thinking you’ll only need “X” capacity, or no reloads, never practicing failure drills...etc.

***********

Thinking outside your box"

"...Assumptions are awesome when they're actually right, but they sure can hurt when you're wrong......"
by Larry Correia


I've been a concealed carry instructor for five years, I hang out with a bunch of gun nuts, and I've been around self-defense buffs for most of my adult life. In that time I've seen a recurring theme, and unfortunately it can be a dangerous one. Many of us have something in common.

I call it My Gunfight. We've imagined a scene, a violent encounter, in our head. And in this scene, we take decisive action and we prevail and save the day. Many of us have a mental fabrication of what My Gunfight is going to be like.

Most people who chose to carry a gun have done this. I have myself. It isn't anything to be ashamed of. In fact, it really helps develop a proper mindset to be able to realistically assess what kind of terrible things can happen to you and start laying some groundwork about how we want to respond.

The problem comes in when we make assumptions about My Gunfight.
Assumptions are awesome when they're actually right, but they sure can hurt when you're wrong.

I have had students tell me that they never practice at anything past conversational distance, because the average gunfight takes place at only seven feet. See, in Their Gunfight, the bad guy will be conveniently placed at a distance that they can actually hit stuff.

Sadly, there's no such thing as an average gunfight. The only thing they have in common is that they all suck. If you only prepare for a gunfight inside an elevator, it will be a bummer when the crazy guy starts shooting at you across the mall. I've had students tell me that if the assailant is that far away, then they wouldn't be justified in shooting. That's also a mistake. There are hundreds of reasons why you might need to shoot somebody out past conversational distance. And if you find yourself in a situation where you need to, you dang well better have practiced.

Another assumption I get from many students is that they will have plenty of time to draw their gun and get it into action. Oftentimes these folks want to carry with an empty chamber. There is a misconception that this is somehow safer, and besides in Their Gunfight, they'll have plenty of time, and both hands available, to get their pistol into action.

In real life, the bad guys may not be as compliant as the ones in Your Gunfight. In real life, the violence may occur so quickly that you do not have time to rack the slide. Or you may have one hand occupied holding the bad guy back from stabbing you in the head with a screwdriver. The point is, you won't know until it happens. Even best case scenario you've added a significant amount of time to your draw stroke (and if you've been in a fight to the death, you know that even a second is a significant amount of time), and one more chance to fumble and screw up.

During my regular class, I integrate a role-playing session. We go through several realistic scenarios with students and actors armed with rubber weapons. All of these scenarios are based on actual cases, and like real life, most of them tend to happen quickly.

Usually after going through the role-plays, nobody is tempted to carry chamber empty anymore. A fatal assumption was pointed out in Their Gunfight, and they adjust accordingly. If you're really worried about carrying with a loaded chamber, get a good, safe holster that keeps the gun secure and protects the trigger. If you still have a mental hang up, switch to a gun that has a heavier trigger or other safety devices. Anything is faster and safer than assuming you'll be in a position to rack a slide.

These are just a few examples of assumptions caused by My Gunfight.
One of my personal favorite students of all time was hung up, not only on carrying chamber empty, but he also had a belief that he would "easily" be able to neutralize the bad guy by shooting them in the leg. No, I kid you not. He brought this up repeatedly during class, even after I pointed out that it could be just as fatal only slower, the same lethal force in the eyes of the law, and with the added benefit of not being nearly as effective at incapacitating an actual threat. What did I know? I was only the guy he was paying to teach him this stuff.

During the role-play, he was lucky enough to get a scenario that I use to demonstrate the principles of a Tueller drill. Without going into too many details, I'm playing the part of an obviously dangerous threat, interrupted in the act of committing a forcible felony on a third person, with the ability and opportunity to cause him serious bodily harm, and I just happen to start twenty-one feet away with a rubber knife.

I charged. He went for his gun. Not only did he fail to rack the slide and shoot me in the leg like he had talked about, he managed to draw the gun, fumble, and actually tossed it across the room. I stabbed him a few times, and as a happy bonus, picked his gun up before I fled the scene.

His Gunfight had not taken into account things like speed, adrenalin, or confusion. Last I checked, he was carrying a chamber loaded Glock, in a good holster, and practicing a bunch.

That was an extreme example, but I think all of us need to watch out for the decisions we make based upon our assumptions. Be smart, be realistic, and don't be afraid to keep an open mind. Just because My Gunfight makes sense to me, doesn't mean that the world cares one bit.

-Larry Correia is an author, firearms instructor, and one of the owners of Fuzzy Bunny Movie Guns in Draper, Utah. FBMG is a gun store, specializing in self-defense needs, training, and full-line smithing.
His first novel, Monster Hunter International, will be released by Baen Books in June 2009. The author can be reached at larry@fbmginc.com


**************
 
I’ve read this on a couple of different forums...very applicable here, I think. I did not write this, either—it’s by Larry Correia (notes at bottom of the article).

Please note—this is a general commentary, not aimed at any one person, and not only applicable to carry in the chamber; it can apply to things such as only practicing at certain ranges, or thinking you’ll only need “X” capacity, or no reloads, never practicing failure drills...etc.

***********

Thinking outside your box"

"...Assumptions are awesome when they're actually right, but they sure can hurt when you're wrong......"
by Larry Correia


I've been a concealed carry instructor for five years, I hang out with a bunch of gun nuts, and I've been around self-defense buffs for most of my adult life. In that time I've seen a recurring theme, and unfortunately it can be a dangerous one. Many of us have something in common.

I call it My Gunfight. We've imagined a scene, a violent encounter, in our head. And in this scene, we take decisive action and we prevail and save the day. Many of us have a mental fabrication of what My Gunfight is going to be like.

Most people who chose to carry a gun have done this. I have myself. It isn't anything to be ashamed of. In fact, it really helps develop a proper mindset to be able to realistically assess what kind of terrible things can happen to you and start laying some groundwork about how we want to respond.

The problem comes in when we make assumptions about My Gunfight.
Assumptions are awesome when they're actually right, but they sure can hurt when you're wrong.

I have had students tell me that they never practice at anything past conversational distance, because the average gunfight takes place at only seven feet. See, in Their Gunfight, the bad guy will be conveniently placed at a distance that they can actually hit stuff.

Sadly, there's no such thing as an average gunfight. The only thing they have in common is that they all suck. If you only prepare for a gunfight inside an elevator, it will be a bummer when the crazy guy starts shooting at you across the mall. I've had students tell me that if the assailant is that far away, then they wouldn't be justified in shooting. That's also a mistake. There are hundreds of reasons why you might need to shoot somebody out past conversational distance. And if you find yourself in a situation where you need to, you dang well better have practiced.

Another assumption I get from many students is that they will have plenty of time to draw their gun and get it into action. Oftentimes these folks want to carry with an empty chamber. There is a misconception that this is somehow safer, and besides in Their Gunfight, they'll have plenty of time, and both hands available, to get their pistol into action.

In real life, the bad guys may not be as compliant as the ones in Your Gunfight. In real life, the violence may occur so quickly that you do not have time to rack the slide. Or you may have one hand occupied holding the bad guy back from stabbing you in the head with a screwdriver. The point is, you won't know until it happens. Even best case scenario you've added a significant amount of time to your draw stroke (and if you've been in a fight to the death, you know that even a second is a significant amount of time), and one more chance to fumble and screw up.

During my regular class, I integrate a role-playing session. We go through several realistic scenarios with students and actors armed with rubber weapons. All of these scenarios are based on actual cases, and like real life, most of them tend to happen quickly.

Usually after going through the role-plays, nobody is tempted to carry chamber empty anymore. A fatal assumption was pointed out in Their Gunfight, and they adjust accordingly. If you're really worried about carrying with a loaded chamber, get a good, safe holster that keeps the gun secure and protects the trigger. If you still have a mental hang up, switch to a gun that has a heavier trigger or other safety devices. Anything is faster and safer than assuming you'll be in a position to rack a slide.

These are just a few examples of assumptions caused by My Gunfight.
One of my personal favorite students of all time was hung up, not only on carrying chamber empty, but he also had a belief that he would "easily" be able to neutralize the bad guy by shooting them in the leg. No, I kid you not. He brought this up repeatedly during class, even after I pointed out that it could be just as fatal only slower, the same lethal force in the eyes of the law, and with the added benefit of not being nearly as effective at incapacitating an actual threat. What did I know? I was only the guy he was paying to teach him this stuff.

During the role-play, he was lucky enough to get a scenario that I use to demonstrate the principles of a Tueller drill. Without going into too many details, I'm playing the part of an obviously dangerous threat, interrupted in the act of committing a forcible felony on a third person, with the ability and opportunity to cause him serious bodily harm, and I just happen to start twenty-one feet away with a rubber knife.

I charged. He went for his gun. Not only did he fail to rack the slide and shoot me in the leg like he had talked about, he managed to draw the gun, fumble, and actually tossed it across the room. I stabbed him a few times, and as a happy bonus, picked his gun up before I fled the scene.

His Gunfight had not taken into account things like speed, adrenalin, or confusion. Last I checked, he was carrying a chamber loaded Glock, in a good holster, and practicing a bunch.

That was an extreme example, but I think all of us need to watch out for the decisions we make based upon our assumptions. Be smart, be realistic, and don't be afraid to keep an open mind. Just because My Gunfight makes sense to me, doesn't mean that the world cares one bit.

-Larry Correia is an author, firearms instructor, and one of the owners of Fuzzy Bunny Movie Guns in Draper, Utah. FBMG is a gun store, specializing in self-defense needs, training, and full-line smithing.
His first novel, Monster Hunter International, will be released by Baen Books in June 2009. The author can be reached at larry@fbmginc.com


**************
Great read here Hans, thanks
 
Great read here Hans, thanks
Great read

i practice and train for both open chamber and cocked and ready. I prefer one for one set of guns and one for the other. I also train where i shoot 30 yards and where its 5 feet. I have had practice “blue guns” slapped from my hand. I kicked the instructor in the nuts. He said wtf! I said i train if you took my gun and your nuts are my target for my foot to win.
I shoot for 3’ hip and 30 yard across the street . No one set of rules works, but having a clear set of memory will.
Both are wrong
Both are correct
Like 9mm vs .40 debate

look at the Israel’s and open chamber . Is it correct ? They think so. Is it right ? Maybe? maybe not

firearms are never a rock solid plan. Like a baseball pitcher. Getting it over the palte for a strike is the objective. Overhand orsidearm works. Same way with guns.
10 “instructors” will tell you 10 things different. Dead is dead. Coroner could care less how.
 
Great read

i practice and train for both open chamber and cocked and ready. I prefer one for one set of guns and one for the other. I also train where i shoot 30 yards and where its 5 feet. I have had practice “blue guns” slapped from my hand. I kicked the instructor in the nuts. He said wtf! I said i train if you took my gun and your nuts are my target for my foot to win.
I shoot for 3’ hip and 30 yard across the street . No one set of rules works, but having a clear set of memory will.
Both are wrong
Both are correct
Like 9mm vs .40 debate

look at the Israel’s and open chamber . Is it correct ? They think so. Is it right ? Maybe? maybe not

In regards to the “Israeli Method”—

It’s important to understand exactly why this practice evolved.

When the modern state of Israel was created by the UN, they were armed with a hodge-podge of weapons...mainly captured Axis weapons from WW2 and Allied castoffs that were unwanted for numerous reasons.

Many of these weapons were of dubious quality.

As far as handguns were concerned, the safeties couldn’t be trusted (or, in some cases, like TT33’s that the Germans captured from the Russians and now were given to Israel—there wasn’t a safety), so the empty chamber concept was introduced...no matter what handgun you had, it worked...and they just never changed their practices when they transitioned to modern, better quality pistols (institutional memory is a hard thing to change).

However, if you are now carrying a modern handgun in good operating order, in a good holster...this isn’t the same set of circumstances.
 
In regards to the “Israeli Method”—

It’s important to understand exactly why this practice evolved.

When the modern state of Israel was created by the UN, they were armed with a hodge-podge of weapons...mainly captured Axis weapons from WW2 and Allied castoffs that were unwanted for numerous reasons.

Many of these weapons were of dubious quality.

As far as handguns were concerned, the safeties couldn’t be trusted (or, in some cases, like TT33’s that the Germans captured from the Russians and now were given to Israel—there wasn’t a safety), so the empty chamber concept was introduced...no matter what handgun you had, it worked...and they just never changed their practices when they transitioned to modern, better quality pistols (institutional memory is a hard thing to change).

However, if you are now carrying a modern handgun in good operating order, in a good holster...this isn’t the same set of circumstances.
Agreed
I use about 5 different methods to practice, shoot and carry.

i dont think any one set of techniques applies to life, liberty, business or guns .
I know my flaws and accept the risks.
I know my rewards and accept the risks
 
Agreed
I use about 5 different methods to practice, shoot and carry.

i dont think any one set of techniques applies to life, liberty, business or guns .
I know my flaws and accept the risks.
I know my rewards and accept the risks
Oh, on edit
I am a southpaw. Left eye dominant and right handed, so I am all kinds of jacked up. Overcome and adapt. Firearms instructors are like , wtf, until i shoot .25 inch groups. Then they just agree to embrace my madness

i get free Instruction& classes at my range.
I take them just for fun, as someone always has a different way or a new tidbit of info. Never to old to learn regardless of how well you do. Plus, its range time and I get to rapid fire, holster draw or do as I please indoor range as they “ qualified” me in their classes
 
When I carry a firearm It's fully loaded ready at all times.Its never where a child has access to it either.
 
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