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The Problem with Gun Violence

Interesting reaction. But it was long. I did appreciate that you could appreciate some of my points.

BTW, I shot on the NRA Headquarters (as it was called then) junior rifle team, Pinwheel JRC, from the time I was 13 or 14. I know a good bit more about the evolution of the NRA than you might guess.
But you obviously know so little about the organization that you would imply the NRA condones 'mass shootings'! I don't think I ever said I "appreciate" in the truest sense any of your points, although I think I probably implied I understood your thinking the way you do regardless of lack of agreement.

Simply shooting on a team, even an NRA sponsored and supported team as a kid or young person, does not necessarily transfer to one knowing and acknowledging the value/worth of any organization. The assertions you made above surely exemplify that. And although you've apparently read my post, you've not found any opportunity to deny or contradict anything I wrote.

The only "evolution" the NRA has ever experienced is to have been forced to provide more of a pro 2nd amendment front along with their pro 'safe and responsible' gun handling front. Why did they do that you ask ... because of the FCA of 1934, FFA of 1938, GCA of 1968, GCA of 1985, Brady act of 1993, and others, each act a little more strict, and more an infringment than the one before it. Some were never congress approved and/or passed, but rules initiated by the ATF&E, and other non-elected bodies of bureaucrats not charged in the constitution as a law making body in any way.

In 1977 or there abouts, the NRA had to change it's primary stance to oppose unconstitutional gun control/anti 2nd amendment regulation as opposed to their prior support for "incremental forms of gun control regulation." New leadership made the "protection of gun rights the NRA's primary cause."
 
Hi,

Nobody parses terms more than 2A zealots. And then it's inevitably used to claim self superiority. Here's another: mass slaughter in an elementary school class.

Anyone would be foolish to believe that someone who's child was murdered would be boning up on gun terms and taking your side. Just sayin'.

Before the NRA turned into an organizational mass shooter, gun enthusiasts worked hand in hand with others to increase public safety. Where we are now is a direct result of our refusal to play nice.

That right there is what you call a "straw man" argument.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
"Our refusal to play nice".

What that means I am guessing is give up our scary black rifles, give up our right to conceal and carry, give up our right to sell or buy a firearm privately without paying for government permission, give up our right to due process if someone other than a court decides we are too dangerous to keep the firearms we bought and give up our right to have more than 10 rounds in any gun we own.
 
"Our refusal to play nice".

What that means I am guessing is give up our scary black rifles, give up our right to conceal and carry, give up our right to sell or buy a firearm privately without paying for government permission, give up our right to due process if someone other than a court decides we are too dangerous to keep the firearms we bought and give up our right to have more than 10 rounds in any gun we own.
Unfortunately some folks are willing to give up all you've mentioned here, yet swear they are pro 2nd amendment. What they'll argue is that they never abuse any of those things so they have no worry. An example of not seeing the forest for the trees!
 
Unfortunately some folks are willing to give up all you've mentioned here, yet swear they are pro 2nd amendment. What they'll argue is that they never abuse any of those things so they have no worry. An example of not seeing the forest for the trees!
Well it sounds like some of them even lay the blame for mass murder on those of us who aren’t willing to give it up.
 
Mr schmidt, with all due respect, apparently you are not aware the NRA is still the single largest trainer of gun safety and responsibility of any organization in the country doing that type of training. Even though I'm retired now, in my time since the mid 1970's, I personally have trained/instructed thousands, probably 10's of 1,000's in safe and responsible firearm handling. I still associate with many, many practicing firearm safety instructors till today all certified by the NRA.

And Mr schmidt, whatever induced you to call the NRA "an organizational mass shooter" has shown you sir to leave a lot to be desired in your ideology, and one in which I would disagree vehemently. The NRA as an organization has never, to the very best of my knowledge been a mass shooter nor done anything to cause you or anyone else to believe they are, or taken part in a mass shooting, or instigated a mass shooting, or condoned a mass shooting, or in any other way been involved in any mass shooting.

And I can't/don't believe there are any/many parents as you offered "who's child was murdered would be boning up on gun terms and taking your (pro gun) side." Of course they would not be on the pro gun side ... or at least not very many. And of those who are not, it would certainly be understandable. But even then, a small number of those so affected still recognize it's not the gun, but the criminal misusing it. For crying out loud why would you even think such a thing, much less say it.

While I'll agree there are some pro 2nd folks who do go overboard in some instances of trying to educate these folks on proper firearm terminology, it's primarily because so many anti 2nd folks insist on using the incorrect terminology. Going back to the days of the "Saturday night special". Remember when no such gun even existed ... ever? Of course you do, but so many others and the MSM talked and acted as if they were a very menacing brand of firearm. The term itself lended toward a scary implement. And how about the term "Assault weapon" when referring to the AR platform. I'm sure you know the AR's are no more assault weapons than was the 'Saturday night special'. No military anywhere on earth has ever issued an AR15 as a battle or service rifle. And not even the ATF&E's own definition defines them as such. They are however simply the most prolific modern sporting rifle in existence today with some averages thought to be more than 24 million in the hands of law abiding citizens. Or what about the term "Ghost gun"? Another scary term the MSM takes much pleasure in using to implicate the pro 2nd folks. When I'll bet you are aware that what they're calling a "Ghost gun" is nothing more than a gun that was home built by a home builder, whether from a kit or from total scratch. It's simply a firearm with no manufacturer's serial number. Home built guns have been legal since before the country was formed. It's only been the recent years with the increase in total crime that 'ghost guns' are showing up in these increased crime numbers. Now, while I agree the lack of a serial number on a firearm can hinder the investigation of a crime wherein it's used, the increase of them being used in crimes has been commensurate with the increase in crime in general and not because of the lack of serial numbers. And something you may not know is that serial numbers on most firearms only became an ATF&E requirement since 1968 ... it's not been forever.

These are the types of terminology I suspect you're talking about when you say: "Nobody parses terms more than 2A zealots. And then it's inevitably used to claim self superiority." None of this is help me feel any superiority over you or anyone else, simply to set the record straight. I do think they are sometimes used when an effort to correct conversation which is ongoing, but ongoing incorrectly, albeit maybe not as tactfully as they should be. And in some cases it may even be used to claim superiority, but without it the 3 terms I've identified above would become 30, then 300, then 3,000 incorrect terms. Now even as much as I disagree with most of what you wrote above, I've been and will remain respectful of you and your ideology. Please know that I am opposed to criminal misuse of or with a firearm as any human can be. I'm also just as ardent a supporter of the 2nd amendment to the constitution and believe it means exactly what it says. Unfortunately your ideology will prevent you from accepting the 2nd as it was intended, but until and unless you do I will still remain respectful. I expect others to show the same respect to me. Regards, jj.
Wow. Ur wasting ur time w/ this one - contrarian view 4 the sake of gettin’ perverse delight in stirring the $*¥€pot. Well spoken- still in vain.
Never argue with a fool, people won’t be able to distinguish the diff plus they’ll beat ya w/ all their experience is what Mark Twain was supposed to have said.
 
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