, but yeah, I definitely do agree.
). 
Agreed.
A 16- or a 14.5-(or 14.3-)inch gun (the latter with a proper length pin-and-welded muzzle device) is "typical."
According to CQB SME John "Chappy" Chapman, the 16-inch gun is still very usable, CONUS, indoors - I am definitely in no place to agree, and even my agreement is about as worthless as can be, given his standing as SME
A 14.5-gun still nets 16" when all's said and done with the appropriate muzzle device, but what you'll likely notice more is the difference that makes, in terms of weight/balance of the gun. It's harder to make a 16"-gun "feel alive" than it is a 14.5. My 16" is about as light as you can make it forward of the receiver, but it's noticeably slower on the swing versus my daughter's 14.5," both are BCMs, with pretty much "equivalent" configurations (mine is a ELW BHF in a 15" KMR handguard - https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/lets-see-your-ar-setups.258/page-2#post-3579, while hers is a fluted standard ELW inside a 13" KMR-A - https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/saint-victor-accu-tightness.9961/); our differences in muzzle devices contribute to hers being livelier, too, but since we're focusing on length, I figured that I'd use this as point-illustration
If you intend to suppress, a 14.5 or just biting the bullet and doing it right by going the double-stamp route and dropping all the way to a 12.5 or even 11.5-inch gun is, in my view, almost requisite, that latter (12.5 or shorter) moreso if you intend vehicle-work. And towards the latter , again per Chappy, I would not go south of an 11.5, when looking for a serious-use gun. While similar in the way that concealment of snubbie revolvers and sub-compact pistols in that every ounce matters, that last inch taken off the 11.5 DI AR platform can potentially engender some issues which an "only one gun" or otherwise less-specific-platform-experienced shooter may not be as well-equipped to deal with.
As good brother @Bassbob wrote, it's really "mission that drives the train." Figure out exactly what you want/need the gun for, first, @David N., and the rest will come together almost effortlessly.
www.thedrive.com
----->
I was referring to what the elite combat teams use. Just as what is “in with the Teams” currently.^ By that link, you mean the sub-11.5, right?
It's not that a sub-11.5 is untenable.
It wasn't my intention for my post above to be read as-such, and similarly, I didn't hear those words come out of Chappy's mouth, either - nor of someone like Dave Laubert (https://www.recoilweb.com/dave-laubert-defensive-creations-80917.html).
It's that as we go from a 12.5 to an 11.5 to a 10.5, we're pushing that envelope more and more and more: and this is a sentiment that I share, which in large part does come from the two gentlemen I mentioned. It also stands to-note that they are each also a disciple of the late Pat Rogers - @David N. , I know that the following video is a bit on the long side, but Pat's a consummate lecturer, and the time will fly - given where you are in the process, I definitely would recommend pulling a large mug of coffee and settling down with this one
Those professionals on the cutting edge either well-understand their weapon-systems and can take care of them at SME-levels of knowledge, know-how, and with specialized tools - and/or have the services of the finest SMEs on their support teams, to do just that. In having multiple weapon platforms that are each specialized and tuned for the mission at-hand, they can well afford to ride that ragged edge of specialization.
It's like that F1 car....
I'm pretty sure the new Seal guns are 10.5" suppressed.Agreed.
A 16- or a 14.5-(or 14.3-)inch gun (the latter with a proper length pin-and-welded muzzle device) is "typical."
According to CQB SME John "Chappy" Chapman, the 16-inch gun is still very usable, CONUS, indoors - I am definitely in no place to agree, and even my agreement is about as worthless as can be, given his standing as SME
A 14.5-gun still nets 16" when all's said and done with the appropriate muzzle device, but what you'll likely notice more is the difference that makes, in terms of weight/balance of the gun. It's harder to make a 16"-gun "feel alive" than it is a 14.5. My 16" is about as light as you can make it forward of the receiver, but it's noticeably slower on the swing versus my daughter's 14.5," both are BCMs, with pretty much "equivalent" configurations (mine is a ELW BHF in a 15" KMR handguard - https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/lets-see-your-ar-setups.258/page-2#post-3579, while hers is a fluted standard ELW inside a 13" KMR-A - https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/saint-victor-accu-tightness.9961/); our differences in muzzle devices contribute to hers being livelier, too, but since we're focusing on length, I figured that I'd use this as point-illustration
If you intend to suppress, a 14.5 or just biting the bullet and doing it right by going the double-stamp route and dropping all the way to a 12.5 or even 11.5-inch gun is, in my view, almost requisite, that latter (12.5 or shorter) moreso if you intend vehicle-work. And towards the latter , again per Chappy, I would not go south of an 11.5, when looking for a serious-use gun. While similar in the way that concealment of snubbie revolvers and sub-compact pistols in that every ounce matters, that last inch taken off the 11.5 DI AR platform can potentially engender some issues which an "only one gun" or otherwise less-specific-platform-experienced shooter may not be as well-equipped to deal with.
As good brother @Bassbob wrote, it's really "mission that drives the train." Figure out exactly what you want/need the gun for, first, @David N., and the rest will come together almost effortlessly.
Beat me to it.About Those Custom Rifles Navy SEALs Were Seen Carrying On A Recent Training Mission
After images of SEALs training off Virginia went viral, people wanted to know about the custom rifles they were carrying. Here's what we found out.
) quality ammo, under a wide range of environmental conditions - the complications compound: even moreso if that shooter isn't intimately familiar with the platform to begin with and/or doesn't have sufficient mechanical support. Thank you, Sir.Agreed.
A 16- or a 14.5-(or 14.3-)inch gun (the latter with a proper length pin-and-welded muzzle device) is "typical."
According to CQB SME John "Chappy" Chapman, the 16-inch gun is still very usable, CONUS, indoors - I am definitely in no place to agree, and even my agreement is about as worthless as can be, given his standing as SME
A 14.5-gun still nets 16" when all's said and done with the appropriate muzzle device, but what you'll likely notice more is the difference that makes, in terms of weight/balance of the gun. It's harder to make a 16"-gun "feel alive" than it is a 14.5. My 16" is about as light as you can make it forward of the receiver, but it's noticeably slower on the swing versus my daughter's 14.5," both are BCMs, with pretty much "equivalent" configurations (mine is a ELW BHF in a 15" KMR handguard - https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/lets-see-your-ar-setups.258/page-2#post-3579, while hers is a fluted standard ELW inside a 13" KMR-A - https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/saint-victor-accu-tightness.9961/); our differences in muzzle devices contribute to hers being livelier, too, but since we're focusing on length, I figured that I'd use this as point-illustration
If you intend to suppress, a 14.5 or just biting the bullet and doing it right by going the double-stamp route and dropping all the way to a 12.5 or even 11.5-inch gun is, in my view, almost requisite, that latter (12.5 or shorter) moreso if you intend vehicle-work. And towards the latter , again per Chappy, I would not go south of an 11.5, when looking for a serious-use gun. While similar in the way that concealment of snubbie revolvers and sub-compact pistols in that every ounce matters, that last inch taken off the 11.5 DI AR platform can potentially engender some issues which an "only one gun" or otherwise less-specific-platform-experienced shooter may not be as well-equipped to deal with.
As good brother @Bassbob wrote, it's really "mission that drives the train." Figure out exactly what you want/need the gun for, first, @David N., and the rest will come together almost effortlessly.
This makes a lot more sense now. Especially after watching the Tactical Shotgunner Pro Tips series posted by @Talyn where the instructor mentions shortening the stock/length of pull to improve manipulation of the slide.and
^ FWIW, if you like the AR otherwise, please know that there are longer -but yet still collapsable- stocks in the aftermarket. Alternatively, there are also fixed-stock retrofits available.
The current interest in braces and PDW-style guns is definitely a part of the driving factor for shorter length-of-pull stocks, but part of this can also be attributed to the modern, more "squared-up" shooting stance/presentation as-favored by "action-sport" competition and "tactical/defensive" shooters. Particularly as the latter sometimes involves the use of various types of body-armor whose shoulder strap (if not the armor itself) interferes with the seating of the buttstock in the traditional shoulder-pocket, shorter (and shortening) of the stock is often needed in order to facilitate modern marksmanship styles and weapons-manipulation techniques.
But again, aftermarket solutions should help make this all but a non-issue for you, if you do desire an AR, otherwise!
I learned a lot, thanks.^ By that link, you mean the sub-11.5, right?
It's not that a sub-11.5 is untenable.
It wasn't my intention for my post above to be read as-such, and similarly, I didn't hear those words come out of Chappy's mouth, either - nor of someone like Dave Laubert (https://www.recoilweb.com/dave-laubert-defensive-creations-80917.html).
It's that as we go from a 12.5 to an 11.5 to a 10.5, we're pushing that envelope more and more and more: and this is a sentiment that I share, which in large part does come from the two gentlemen I mentioned. It also stands to-note that they are each also a disciple of the late Pat Rogers - @David N. , I know that the following video is a bit on the long side, but Pat's a consummate lecturer, and the time will fly - given where you are in the process, I definitely would recommend pulling a large mug of coffee and settling down with this one
Those professionals on the cutting edge either well-understand their weapon-systems and can take care of them at SME-levels of knowledge, know-how, and with specialized tools - and/or have the services of the finest SMEs on their support teams, to do just that. In having multiple weapon platforms that are each specialized and tuned for the mission at-hand, they can well afford to ride that ragged edge of specialization.
It's like that F1 car....
Welcome to the infinite world of AR-15
Thanks, Killer.Welcome to the infinite world of AR-15