This is not necessary!
- Thread starter jumpinjoe
- Start date
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
I heard an interview with famous criminal attorney Mark Geragos last night pretty much in support (as I understood his comments) of what the customer did. Now he didn't come right out and say the guy is totally innocent, but did imply he saw little to no reason to find any guilt in the guy's actions.
He went on to explain the term vigilante not applying as vigilante implies one who sought out his target, rather than acting in a moment of need, self defense, fear, etc.
I guess time will tell. I guess we could all claim 'justice was served' on the bad guy, but we who believe in the law must keep an open mind and accept the end result based on the law. I mentioned in one of my earlier posts that the last shot might be questionable, and that still stands in my mind. It's almost impossible to know for certain what was going through anyone's mind in any instant during a situation like that.
He went on to explain the term vigilante not applying as vigilante implies one who sought out his target, rather than acting in a moment of need, self defense, fear, etc.
I guess time will tell. I guess we could all claim 'justice was served' on the bad guy, but we who believe in the law must keep an open mind and accept the end result based on the law. I mentioned in one of my earlier posts that the last shot might be questionable, and that still stands in my mind. It's almost impossible to know for certain what was going through anyone's mind in any instant during a situation like that.
Old_Me
SAINT
this happened 4 days ago, and still the guy cannot be found?
law must be cooling things so he can surface.
as much as i'd hate that he might never be charged, still bothers me he shot the guy in the back, then went up to him, and shot him in the head.
yes, the robber was a thug, but once down, nothing shows on the video he was moving, or reaching for his gun.
in fact, watch the video link that i provided via twitter, as the robbers gun, gets tossed under a table, far from him........
go to full scree mode. in fact, the vigilante, picks up the robbers gun, and now HIS finger prints are on it, as he and his buddy leave.
clearly the cops must have his prints by now, even facial recognition that police depts have, they should know who he is...
DoubleAgent
Elite
100% clean shoot to me. Crook was armed and in danger distance. No way to know what the crook was going to do next. He could of left, he could of swung around and unloaded on them. As far as the shots, I was always told to shoot until the threat is over. Not when you "feel" it should be enough. That's how you end up being shot back at. If your life is in danger, you don't shoot to wound. Now he shouldn't have left. That was dumb but I can imagine in the moment your brain isn't working right due to the rush.
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Actually Old_Me, the guy came in voluntarily and was questioned on Monday and released with no charges. Still may be more to play out. Here's a good link to read about it:
Man who shot robber at SW Houston taqueria questioned, released, HPD says
HPD had been looking for the man who shot another man during a robbery last week. On Monday, they questioned the 46-year-old and released him without charges.
www.khou.com
Old_Me
SAINT
now it's up to the grand juryActually Old_Me, the guy came in voluntarily and was questioned on Monday and released with no charges. Still may be more to play out. Here's a good link to read about it:
Man who shot robber at SW Houston taqueria questioned, released, HPD says
HPD had been looking for the man who shot another man during a robbery last week. On Monday, they questioned the 46-year-old and released him without charges.
i'd like to be kept up to date on this as much as everyone else.
Annihilator
Emissary
I can’t call this guy a hero period! He shot that guy all those times when one or two rounds would have been enough, he really even shouldn’t got involved in this, just because you are carrying a gun doesn’t make you the law. This needs looked at
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Again not taking sides, but I'm thinking it's pretty hard to just sit and wait to see if the bad guy is going to shoot up the place, or just take the money and run. If it went the wrong way while we're waiting to see what he plans to do, it might be too late. And once it becomes too late, it's probably permanent ..... no 'do overs'.
In the video I linked, the DA said that in a situation where the first shot was warranted, the number of shots didn't matter. I'm still hesitant about the 'coup de grace' after picking up the bad guy's gun, but I'll rely on the laws of Texas for a final decision on that. There's no way we can know what was going on in the customer's mind at the exact time of that last shot. The kind of stress he must have been under has been justification for many things that seem totally out of line to those of us not directly involved.
Kind of the same thinking regarding 'shooting in the back'. There was no gentleman's agreement with clean rules in this case like in a duel. Everyone in that shop were literally 'scared to death'. My guess is the customer was the only one inside who was carrying, and was as scared as everyone else and he took his first opportunity to eliminate the threat. And again, if he had waited, or had challenged the bad guy to a full frontal shootout, it might have been too late for him and everyone else in there.
And there was some discussion here today whether the bad guy was actually leaving or not. He was headed toward the door, but still a long way from it with still one customer between him and the door and still brandishing his gun. Consensus seemed to be that until he actually walked out through the door and was 'going away', he was considered a deadly threat. I think I'm in that court..... at any instant he could have swung around and started shooting. Or as a last 'hurrah' could have taken out the customer sitting just inside the door in the first booth.
In the video I linked, the DA said that in a situation where the first shot was warranted, the number of shots didn't matter. I'm still hesitant about the 'coup de grace' after picking up the bad guy's gun, but I'll rely on the laws of Texas for a final decision on that. There's no way we can know what was going on in the customer's mind at the exact time of that last shot. The kind of stress he must have been under has been justification for many things that seem totally out of line to those of us not directly involved.
Kind of the same thinking regarding 'shooting in the back'. There was no gentleman's agreement with clean rules in this case like in a duel. Everyone in that shop were literally 'scared to death'. My guess is the customer was the only one inside who was carrying, and was as scared as everyone else and he took his first opportunity to eliminate the threat. And again, if he had waited, or had challenged the bad guy to a full frontal shootout, it might have been too late for him and everyone else in there.
And there was some discussion here today whether the bad guy was actually leaving or not. He was headed toward the door, but still a long way from it with still one customer between him and the door and still brandishing his gun. Consensus seemed to be that until he actually walked out through the door and was 'going away', he was considered a deadly threat. I think I'm in that court..... at any instant he could have swung around and started shooting. Or as a last 'hurrah' could have taken out the customer sitting just inside the door in the first booth.
The Night Rider
Professional
That's going to be a hard picture to paint given the video clearly shows the defender pick up the robbers gun and while he's holding in his hand shoot the guy again.
Old_Me
SAINT
not only that, but the robber's gun actually flew across the floor, and under the table/seating of that last table.....he would not have easily reached for it.
HayesGreener
Ronin
I would not have arrested the shooter based on what I saw in the video. The grand jury may decide to do something yet but the shooting seems to be within bounds of Texas law. A coup de grace shot, if there was one, troubles me but so much about that is subjective, like what was in the shooter's mind at the time. Videos do not tell the full story. The DA has referred it to a grand jury. Let's see what the grand jury decides. The dead robber was a skunk of the highest order, it would be near impossible to get a conviction on the shooter by a jury in Texas.
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Well, here ya are with the latest on the shooting by the customer. I'm still not certain it's all over, but it seems to be. Read it here and then talk about your thoughts:
www.yahoo.com
Armed Houston taqueria customer justified in shooting armed robbery suspect under Texas law: legal expert
A Houston criminal defense attorney told Fox News Digital that a man who shot and killed an armed robber inside a taqueria appears to have operated within Texas law.
kenpomaniac1958
Master Class
Guy took action, which not many can do under those circumstances.
I saw the bad guy's gun go flying across the floor also, but if I were civilian who had just shot maybe I don't see that gun going away from the bad guy. You sometimes miss little things in violent encounters. But after the encounter and after the adrenaline dump, you remember some of those things.
I also think that possibly the civilian taking the action was so focused on ending the threat any resistance by the bad guy was going to result in him getting shot more.
Another possibility, is that maybe the civilian is/was a hunter and is used to doing a head shot to an animal that's still breathing even though it's down on the ground. Some of the training we do creates habits that can be excessive or out of place in some situations.
A few times as a bouncer I hit a bad guy more times than I meant to because I used a martial arts self-defense technique that had several movements and that I had practiced 100's of times, maybe more. So when I used the technique unconsciously my body wanted to do the whole technique.
I saw the bad guy's gun go flying across the floor also, but if I were civilian who had just shot maybe I don't see that gun going away from the bad guy. You sometimes miss little things in violent encounters. But after the encounter and after the adrenaline dump, you remember some of those things.
I also think that possibly the civilian taking the action was so focused on ending the threat any resistance by the bad guy was going to result in him getting shot more.
Another possibility, is that maybe the civilian is/was a hunter and is used to doing a head shot to an animal that's still breathing even though it's down on the ground. Some of the training we do creates habits that can be excessive or out of place in some situations.
A few times as a bouncer I hit a bad guy more times than I meant to because I used a martial arts self-defense technique that had several movements and that I had practiced 100's of times, maybe more. So when I used the technique unconsciously my body wanted to do the whole technique.
kenpomaniac1958
Master Class
You play with fire long enough you get burned. I'm sorry for your loss lady, but we all make choices and suffer the consequences.
I am white and was adopted and raised by a Mexican-American family near the Mexican border in South Texas. My number 1 priority growing up was always staying out of trouble so my behavior did not reflect badly on my mom and my family.
I'm 64 years old and I have never been arrested. I've been complimented on my manners(Spanish and English) countless times in my life. And I always tell the people who compliment it was because of my mom's and family's teachings.
I've known some tough guys and could have easily been influenced by them, but that would have gone against the teachings of my mom and family. And my family's teachings were a lot more important to me than getting drunk or high or anything like that.
Choices and consequences. I wonder if this dead young man was involved in other crimes. It's been written/said that the first time you rob or steal is the hardest because you are nervous. In my opinion this kid looked like he'd robbed before the way he approached the customers. But I don't know for sure since I've never robbed a place.
I do know about violence, especially about fighting. I've seen people get stabbed(in Mexico and the South Texas border) over stupid stuff. Robbing/stealing is playing with fire because some people take it very personal when you try to steal from them. I've seen guys get stomped just for sitting on the hood of a car that wasn't theirs.
Again, play with fire, suffer the consequences of being burned. I'm not blaming the mom, but she shouldn't be able to profit financially from her son's death.
Justice is one thing, financial compensation for the death of a person who was involved in a crime is a totally different thing.
Bassbob
Emissary
can’t read the whole article because there’s no way in hell I’m putting the MSN app on my phone.
RandomHero
Custom
I think there is more to the story than what the media is allowed to report.
A Heavily Armed Man Caused Panic at a Supermarket. But Did He Break the Law?
ATLANTA — Two days after a gunman killed 10 people at a Colorado grocery store, leaving many Americans on high alert, Rico Marley was arrested as he emerged from the bathroom at a Publix supermarket in Atlanta. He was wearing body armor and carrying six loaded weapons — four handguns in his...
These are the kind of stunts that not only make all us 2nd amendment supporters look bad/stupid/insane/etc/etc/etc, but also makes it much harder to justify and protect the 2nd amendment. Did he have the 'right' to do what he did..... of course! Unfortunately he just didn't have the good sense to not do it! What do y'all think?
Just something to ponder here y'all!
RandomHero
Custom
He probably fled after he picked up the robbers gun and found out it was fake. He probably thought he would go to jail for sure for shooting someone that had a fake gun?here are a few pics of the shooter and his truck
then there is this
i still don't know, why a civilian shooting someone in the back...fleeing....then in the head........is correct under any law.....
might be a ploy to get the vigilante out of hiding......
Net Engineer
Master Class
According to the article the dead perp was convicted of aggravated robbery in 2015 and served 7 years of a 15 year sentence and was also charged with assaulting his wife before bonding out.
It appears he was a career scumbag that finally got what was coming to him.