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this will the day this happens with me

Annihilator said:
Let them try!!
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Belt Fed said:
Oh it's coming if harris gets put in office.
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thing is, they already know what we have, since a 4473 has to be filled out.

i keep all my old bills of sales of guns i have sold, and i have sold all of them at an FFL, not privately.

like my yearly tax returns......we only need like 3 years to keep..??

i think we have them from as far back as when Ben Franklin flew his kite.......
 
Old_Me said:
thing is, they already know what we have, since a 4473 has to be filled out.

i keep all my old bills of sales of guns i have sold, and i have sold all of them at an FFL, not privately.

like my yearly tax returns......we only need like 3 years to keep..??

i think we have them from as far back as when Ben Franklin flew his kite.......
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We've been over this before. 4473s are retained by FFLs. That's not to say that they can't figure out most of what you have if they are looking at you specifically, but every gun you buy doesn't go into a government database. Yet.
 
Bassbob said:
We've been over this before. 4473s are retained by FFLs. That's not to say that they can't figure out most of what you have if they are looking at you specifically, but every gun you buy doesn't go into a government database. Yet.
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yeah, and at that time, if i recall, a mentioned i was at the mom/pop gun store, and an ATF agent (from the Boston office) was there, actually for a few days, and he went thru the books. i spoke with him, and he was "friendly enough", not some sort of azzhat g'man

he was quite impressed with the book keeping.
 
Bassbob said:
We've been over this before. 4473s are retained by FFLs. That's not to say that they can't figure out most of what you have if they are looking at you specifically, but every gun you buy doesn't go into a government database. Yet.
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Its easy to do.
I had traded a gun to an LGS. It was stolen from the LGS 2 days later.
Police called me. Explained I sold it to LGS.
They knew. They found the gun at a park. Cops Called gun maker. Maker says sold to LGS “a”. LGS “a” says sold to me. Cops Ask me if I own the gun still. Tell cops I sold to lgs “b”.
Cops says we know, we have record. Just want your statement is wasnt yours still.
 
KillerFord1977 said:
Its easy to do.
I had traded a gun to an LGS. It was stolen from the LGS 2 days later.
Police called me. Explained I sold it to LGS.
They knew. They found the gun at a park. Cops Called gun maker. Maker says sold to LGS “a”. LGS “a” says sold to me. Cops Ask me if I own the gun still. Tell cops I sold to lgs “b”.
Cops says we know, we have record. Just want your statement is wasnt yours still.
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Sure, but they have to physically go to the LGS. And without a serialized gun to trace they're going to have a somewhat more difficult time. If they're looking at a person, not a serialized gun there will need to be warrants, due process, etc........ You get my point.
 
I will make this confession one time and never again, Many years ago i bought all kinds of military weapons like H&K, Valmet, Styer, and so on. sometime later that gun shop burned to the ground along with all the paperwork. was no computers back then. and no i didn't do it. i did know the owners.
 
KillerFord1977 said:
Its easy to do.
I had traded a gun to an LGS. It was stolen from the LGS 2 days later.
Police called me. Explained I sold it to LGS.
They knew. They found the gun at a park. Cops Called gun maker. Maker says sold to LGS “a”. LGS “a” says sold to me. Cops Ask me if I own the gun still. Tell cops I sold to lgs “b”.
Cops says we know, we have record. Just want your statement is wasnt yours still.
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This ^^^^^^^.

ATF has to contact the manufacturer, manufacturer provides which FFL received that selection of serial numbers, ATF visits FFL. FFL decides whether to pull that particular record or let them peruse the folder with those files in. ATF contacts most current purchaser on record.
 
I have told this story before, but as far back as the mid 80s when the ATF inspector came to do a records check he sat and copied the information line for line from the bound book. That included where a gun came from and where it went and to whom it went. If a gun was listed in the bound book and hadn’t been sold the inspector often wanted to see it. Big Brother has been collecting info on sales for many years.
 
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