this will the day this happens with me
- Thread starter Old_Me
- Start date
Recusant
Hellcat
Did she mean to say to serve legal owners with a no knock warrant at 3AM? That would probably take more SWAT teams than currently available.
Annihilator
Emissary
Let them try!!
bc22wm
Custom
Old_Me
SAINT
thing is, they already know what we have, since a 4473 has to be filled out.
i keep all my old bills of sales of guns i have sold, and i have sold all of them at an FFL, not privately.
like my yearly tax returns......we only need like 3 years to keep..??
i think we have them from as far back as when Ben Franklin flew his kite.......
Bassbob
Emissary
We've been over this before. 4473s are retained by FFLs. That's not to say that they can't figure out most of what you have if they are looking at you specifically, but every gun you buy doesn't go into a government database. Yet.
Old_Me
SAINT
yeah, and at that time, if i recall, a mentioned i was at the mom/pop gun store, and an ATF agent (from the Boston office) was there, actually for a few days, and he went thru the books. i spoke with him, and he was "friendly enough", not some sort of azzhat g'man
he was quite impressed with the book keeping.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Its easy to do.
I had traded a gun to an LGS. It was stolen from the LGS 2 days later.
Police called me. Explained I sold it to LGS.
They knew. They found the gun at a park. Cops Called gun maker. Maker says sold to LGS “a”. LGS “a” says sold to me. Cops Ask me if I own the gun still. Tell cops I sold to lgs “b”.
Cops says we know, we have record. Just want your statement is wasnt yours still.
Bassbob
Emissary
Sure, but they have to physically go to the LGS. And without a serialized gun to trace they're going to have a somewhat more difficult time. If they're looking at a person, not a serialized gun there will need to be warrants, due process, etc........ You get my point.
Belt Fed
Ronin
I will make this confession one time and never again, Many years ago i bought all kinds of military weapons like H&K, Valmet, Styer, and so on. sometime later that gun shop burned to the ground along with all the paperwork. was no computers back then. and no i didn't do it. i did know the owners.
SimonRL
Hellcat
This ^^^^^^^.
ATF has to contact the manufacturer, manufacturer provides which FFL received that selection of serial numbers, ATF visits FFL. FFL decides whether to pull that particular record or let them peruse the folder with those files in. ATF contacts most current purchaser on record.
Cedric
Custom
The really sad thing is that it wasn't about enforcing gun laws directly. Weaver was charged with "Failure to Appear." Think that one over. An ex Army sniper, M113 APCs, dozens of LE and feds all for failure to appear. The agent in charge was ostensibly suspended and demoted, but eventually ended up in a cushy job in DC IIRC.
Warrants? Due process? Those are just pesky little things that will be ignored.
Bassbob
Emissary
How many gun owners in this country ? How many G men ? It's gonna take more than some 4473s at gun stores bro.Warrants? Due process? Those are just pesky little things that will be ignored.
Recusant
Hellcat
I have told this story before, but as far back as the mid 80s when the ATF inspector came to do a records check he sat and copied the information line for line from the bound book. That included where a gun came from and where it went and to whom it went. If a gun was listed in the bound book and hadn’t been sold the inspector often wanted to see it. Big Brother has been collecting info on sales for many years.
Grayfox
Professional
I, and many others, have long believed that the government has long kept an illegal, secret list of gun owners. They know everything you have and exactly when you got it from any FFL dealer. The only exceptions might be guns bought or sold in private transactions. The infamous "gun show loophole" that they've tried to eliminate for years.
Its not so much what you have that bothers them. Its what you have that they don't already know about.
Its not so much what you have that bothers them. Its what you have that they don't already know about.
Bassbob
Emissary
They no doubt have been illegally keeping the records they have confiscated from FFLS that went out of business or were shut down by ATF ( Remember they just increased the time FFLs had to retain 4473s from 20 years to indefinitely). They have so many records, they claimed they didn't have enough space for them while asking the Biden administration for more funding. That said, there is no way they have anywhere near a complete list of what you own or have. Any gun store you bought a gun from that hasn't gone out of business has your 4473, not the government. Nevertheless, in order for those records to do them any good the day has to come where possessing those guns becomes a crime and law enforcement, almost in it's entirety, has to be under the thumb of the federal government. And when that happens it's a certainty you will know about it before it happens. Take from that what you will.
The transaction record from your BGC doesn't specify exactly what you bought by the way. Only whether it was a handgun, long gun or other. And it contains no serial numbers.
Just remember though that our friend (fiends?) in DC keep talking about adding 87,000 “Treasurey agents”. ( Shame they don’t hire 87,000 Bordor Patrol agents and close the dang border!