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To dot, or not to dot, that is the question.

Love them or hate them. I have all long guns red doted, well 1 is lpvo. On a handgun over 15 yards i guess it may work if you are willing to put the cost (ammo) and time into it, im to old to relearn "old dog new trick". Im still as fast or a little faster as a reddot shooter, under 15 yards. I do believe however over 15 yds they reddots have the advantage, if youve trained using it. Me id use a rifle if possible over 15 yds.
 
After many years with irons only, I purchased 2 EDC pistols that came with lasers, one red and one green. It didn't take long after zeroing to use them effectively, along with some professional training and regular practice. Then I bought my Hellcat OSP optics ready. After shooting it irons only for about a year, I decided to try the dot and added a Shield RMSc, which was one of three direct mounts for it. It drove me crazy for about a month until a professional training about 3 miles away caught my eye. With that training, proper zeroing, and some regular practice, I can honestly say my target acquisition speed and accuracy improved greatly, especially at distances over 15 yards. Anyone with "old eyes" like mine should at least give it a try. If you have an experienced friend who has one, volunteer to supply some ammo and see if it's for you.
 
People get way to emotional about if others use a dot or not. Like it’s a religion sometimes (no offense ment)

I’ve taken Dave Spaulding MRDs class ti get familiar since I see them in class. And other than toying with RDS on a PPC revolver over 25-30 years ago I’ve only used them on rifles and MP5’s.

Believe it or not they don’t make me any faster up close. Now there are some phenomenal RDS pistol shooters. But they have tinkered and shot and trained to that. I so t care to and that’s OK.

And YES I get they improve accuracy at distance however for most earth people what’s the probability of a 50 yard shot (and the Greenwood mall shooting was a onesie get over it it just don’t happen)

And they do shift zero unexpectedly and I don’t care who you are irons don’t shift so that argument is BE from the RDS church!

Use one or not but outside of running a race probably not gonna make a difference IF you are a proficient handgunner!
Below is just some humor of the topic!
 

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ECS686 said:
People get way to emotional about if others use a dot or not. Like it’s a religion sometimes (no offense ment)

I’ve taken Dave Spaulding MRDs class ti get familiar since I see them in class. And other than toying with RDS on a PPC revolver over 25-30 years ago I’ve only used them on rifles and MP5’s.

Believe it or not they don’t make me any faster up close. Now there are some phenomenal RDS pistol shooters. But they have tinkered and shot and trained to that. I so t care to and that’s OK.

And YES I get they improve accuracy at distance however for most earth people what’s the probability of a 50 yard shot (and the Greenwood mall shooting was a onesie get over it it just don’t happen)

And they do shift zero unexpectedly and I don’t care who you are irons don’t shift so that argument is BE from the RDS church!

Use one or not but outside of running a race probably not gonna make a difference IF you are a proficient handgunner!
Below is just some humor of the topic!
Click to expand...
After my more than 50 years irons only, before using any optic on a firearm, I think practice and professional training on irons only should be undertaken by a new shooter. It's a baseline all of us use for a lifetime. With practice, it will enable you to get fast center mass hits at certain "close up" distances, even without the irons instinctively. For me, the same holds true after adding an optic, either a laser or RDS. My laser training taught me that "too early activation" of the laser can make you an easy target. My RDS training taught me about up close vs. distance use of the dot. Fortunately for me,. my RMSc on my Hellcat has never lost zero or failed, even after battery replacement, when reinstalling with the correct torque specs, and gives me 100% co-witness of my irons. I don't subscribe to any firearms "religion" by any means but train and practice regularly in all disciplines. In short, train and practice what keeps you safe and effective. Just my opinion.

Edit to corect auto correct
 
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Optics on pistols are a great innovation for a number of reasons, but. I always insisted that my students attain competence on iron sights before trying to use red dots or, heaven forbid, lasers. My rationale is simple. No matter how good your optic is, it can fail, leaving you with nothing but iron. You need those skills to fall back on. If your optic does not allow you to use iron sights, well, you are S.O.L. when the optic fails. I attended a week long red dot duty pistol instructor course for LEO's where there was a myriad of brands represented, and I can tell you there were some failures with a volume of fire. LE agencies are dealing with the same questions. There are really good red dots, and cheap red dots, but no really good cheap red dots. But I have seen some good ones fail.

There is a learning curve when using the red dot. You have to learn a new way of presenting the pistol to pick up the dot quickly. I would not recommend relying on the red dot for defense until you have mastered the presentation, and have confidence in your optic. The good thing is that learning the proper presentation with the red dot will improve your presentation with irons.

My P226 Legion is set up with a red dot and tall iron sights. I trained with it with the red dot, and with the irons and battery removed

I have discovered after learning proper presentation that I am faster on target with the red dot, but more precise with the irons. At typical combat distances the difference is negligible. Your results may vary.
 
HayesGreener said:
Optics on pistols are a great innovation for a number of reasons, but. I always insisted that my students attain competence on iron sights before trying to use red dots or, heaven forbid, lasers. My rationale is simple. No matter how good your optic is, it can fail, leaving you with nothing but iron. You need those skills to fall back on. If your optic does not allow you to use iron sights, well, you are S.O.L. when the optic fails. I attended a week long red dot duty pistol instructor course for LEO's where there was a myriad of brands represented, and I can tell you there were some failures with a volume of fire. LE agencies are dealing with the same questions. There are really good red dots, and cheap red dots, but no really good cheap red dots. But I have seen some good ones fail.

There is a learning curve when using the red dot. You have to learn a new way of presenting the pistol to pick up the dot quickly. I would not recommend relying on the red dot for defense until you have mastered the presentation, and have confidence in your optic. The good thing is that learning the proper presentation with the red dot will improve your presentation with irons.

My P226 Legion is set up with a red dot and tall iron sights. I trained with it with the red dot, and with the irons and battery removed

I have discovered after learning proper presentation that I am faster on target with the red dot, but more precise with the irons. At typical combat distances the difference is negligible. Your results may vary.
Click to expand...


It’s funny how what’s old is new again in this case with irons we got away from the point shooting and at least use the front sight. However with a lot of class curriculum with RDS classes a lot of folks touch on when. Your optic fails using the backplate or corner of the slide etc as an aiming index at close range. Much like the days of pre night sight and Cirillo using equal silhouette on both sides of the cylinder backplate.

Something we (as general training stuff) got away from the last 30 or so years with 3 dot or night sights etc.
 
ECS686 said:
It’s funny how what’s old is new again in this case with irons we got away from the point shooting and at least use the front sight. However with a lot of class curriculum with RDS classes a lot of folks touch on when. Your optic fails using the backplate or corner of the slide etc as an aiming index at close range. Much like the days of pre night sight and Cirillo using equal silhouette on both sides of the cylinder backplate.

Something we (as general training stuff) got away from the last 30 or so years with 3 dot or night sights etc.
Click to expand...
Yes we did a lot of training with the iron sights taped over to demonstrate point shooting techniques. But when the situation calls for hitting an eyeball sized target you do need some sight reference
 
I use dots on my subcompact slimline guns Hellcat Pro and 365XL. My main carry gun is a G19 which I use iron sights just because in a self defense situation it points natural for me. The smaller guns don't but that is me and my gorilla hands. I also train this way to point and shoot for self defense without focusing on sights. If I try that with the smaller guns who knows where the bullets would go, with the smaller guns I like the dots because it will get me on target faster for a clean shot.
 
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