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Too Much Tacticool: What is Truly Needed on a Home Defense Rifle?

old but still kicking said:
Hmmm okay. Wouldn’t a speedy 50ish grain bullet still pass thru windows or walls more or less intact (avoiding studs) & be a keyholing, tumbling threat even so? Don’t know so hence the questions
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Note I said “LESS walls” than 9mm…a 5.56 will still go through walls, plural.

But the light bullets fragment, yaw, and shed velocity quickly, where the 9mm is basically turned into a RN bullet when the drywall plugs the cavity with no to minimal expansion.

If I was running a 5.56 as a HD long gun…I’d be running 45-55gr varmint loads such as a VMax or a Nosler Ballistic Tip.
 
old but still kicking said:
Is it me or is a 223/556 not the best call for home defense ? Seems like you’d be as likely to ventilate your neighbor’s walls also even if you hit your home invader/s center mass, yeah ? If you don’t have ur neighbors homes within 100 yards or so, fine. Even a 9mm pistol sends 124 grains of JHP out over 1100 fps & that’s easily a bad thing to my closest neighbors only 60-75 feet away!!
Someone else posted it’s smarter to call 911 to record it all, hunker down barricaded & wait 4 the threat to threaten you. 100% agree. Legally & practically tactical-wise you’d be safer unless you’ve been trained how to correctly pie corners/entryways & navigate fatal funnels aka stairways & hallways.
Says Mr Prosecutor, ‘isn’t it true you, Mr Vile Vigilante, grabbed a firearm & went LOOKING to shoot another person ??’ Blah, blah, spin, ignore facts, etc. Just cuz they’re breaking in my garage full of expensive tools doesn’t mean I SHOULD exercise deadly force despite what our emotional response to that violation might be.
Having a pump action Mossberg 590 mariner ss 9 rd cap with attached 6 rd sidesaddle shell holder & Surefire pressure activated foreend gives me peace of mind. The alternating 00 buck & birdshot shells ease my over penetration fears a little bit at least.
Guess it depends on our individual circumstances & common sense maybe.
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The AR overpenetration myth has been busted.

As a certified ( or certifiable) shotgun junkie, I implore you to dispense with the birdshot altogether. You are not doing yourself any favors. I go straight 00B, but there is a good case to be made for #1 or #4 Buck. Birdshot in a self/home defense shotgun is a bad idea.

Unless you live in an apartment it is too easy to map out your home, as it relates to your "Safe room" and insure you aren't shooting into your kid's bedrooms. The whole overpentration, internet gun forum phenomenon is a bunch of crap. Much like the overzealous prosecutor hammering an otherwise legitimate self defense shooter over a trigger job, there simply is no evidence of it happening. The odds of some 00B passing through a few layers of drywall, sheeting and siding, with distance spaced in between, then crossing your yard, penetrating the neighbors siding, sheeting and drywall are frankly extremely long.


If you live in a place where shooting a home intruder leaves you on the receiving end of a prosecutor you need to move.
 
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Im going to go down an ugly slope.

Most “mass” (loosely) public shootings have been with AR’s.
Some to many killed lots wounded .

If the AR was the best home defense weapon, the death rate would be way higher. Thank God it’s not.
As for “stuff” on the rifle, it boils down to setting and need.

If all that stuff was needed, it would be used by everyone. If the AR was a great home defense weapon, it would be used by everyone.
Israeli citizens found out the hard way. Some had AR’s.

You use what you are comfortable with and you use what works for you.

Wacko’s use the AR cause its en vogue for society. Thank God again its not the best tool and almost all perps are not very good with it
 
As for WMLs, if you're gonna run 'em, know how to use them. That's all I'll say about that.

There is never an occasion when I can't see in my house. Plenty of low level lighting and I don't shoot at random noises. No kids at home. If you are in my house in the middle of the night and you aren't my wife or a cat, you're probably fixing to have a really bad time.
 
Faulkner said:
I've retired my first generation Ruger Police Carbine PC4 in .40 S&W from my patrol car and relegated it to home defense.

View attachment 52780
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My Ruger PC Carbine has been a safe queen since moving from Glocks in .40 at work to 9mm☹️
ruger-pc-carbine-9mm-luger-1612in-black-semi-automatic-modern-sporting-rifle-171-rounds-153607...jpg
 
Bassbob said:
The AR overpenetration myth has been busted.

As a certified ( or certifiable) shotgun junkie, I implore you to dispense with the birdshot altogether. You are not doing yourself any favors. I go straight 00B, but there is a good case to be made for #1 or #4 Buck. Birdshot in a self/home defense shotgun is a bad idea.

Unless you live in an apartment it is too easy to map out your home, as it relates to your "Safe room" and insure you aren't shooting into your kid's bedrooms. The whole overpentration, internet gun forum phenomenon is a bunch of crap. Much like the overzealous prosecutor hammering an otherwise legitimate self defense shooter over a trigger job, there simply is no evidence of it happening. The odds of some 00B passing through a few layers of drywall, sheeting and siding, with distance spaced in between, then crossing your yard, penetrating the neighbors siding, sheeting and drywall are frankly extremely long.


If you live in a place where shooting a home intruder leaves you on the receiving end of a prosecutor you need to move.
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Appreciate the feedback - no concerns my Moss 590 food will go further than necessary, never in question but head scratching w/ regard to wisdom of a screaming 223 rd traveling too far 4 ‘safe’ home defense.
Can u explain why the birdshot 👎 cuz seeing the pattern on paper at the range looks effective as a discourager of further dumbassery. Oh, 2 girls,hs seniors, & a wife all 3 well versed w/ WTF protocols plus 2 lab sized dogs very protective so not too concerned w/ friendly fire oopsies. And, yeah use what u have trained w/ & KNOW ur proficient w/ under duress. “The harder u train in practice, easier it’ll be in reality”
 
I know people shot with birdshot. It is not particularly effective as a threat stopper. In the event it doesn’t stop a home invader there you are trying to VERY quickly rack the next round. Now I know that sounds easy and fast, but all that stuff Tom Cruise does in Mission Impossible looks fairly simple too. Under duress, with your life in the balance, are you positive you can rack and shoot before the bogeyman returns fire ?

I train with shotguns. A lot. And have for a long time. No birdshot. Don’t take my word for it though my friend. Ask every other respected shotgun instructor there is. Because they all say the same thing.

With regards to 223/5.56. I have a friend who had a negligent discharge with his AR loaded with 62 grain green tips. The bullet went through the door trim in his bedroom (they are made of paper), two sheets of drywall ( one on either side of door frame) missed the frame and just nicked the corner of the stud, went through a wicker basket filled with linens on the shelf on the back of the wall, went across the room ( about 12’ ) and we dug it out of the front facade of a couch. In about 4 pieces. Total distance traveled, less than 25’. And that was a green tip.
 
old but still kicking said:
Appreciate the feedback - no concerns my Moss 590 food will go further than necessary, never in question but head scratching w/ regard to wisdom of a screaming 223 rd traveling too far 4 ‘safe’ home defense.
Can u explain why the birdshot 👎 cuz seeing the pattern on paper at the range looks effective as a discourager of further dumbassery. Oh, 2 girls,hs seniors, & a wife all 3 well versed w/ WTF protocols plus 2 lab sized dogs very protective so not too concerned w/ friendly fire oopsies. And, yeah use what u have trained w/ & KNOW ur proficient w/ under duress. “The harder u train in practice, easier it’ll be in reality”
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Birdshot rarely penetrates enough to be a physically stopping wound, and if you live someplace where it’s cold this time of year, birdshot will be severely compromised by winter clothing.

I know someone who got shot in the back with birdshot whole hunting—distance was the length of a pickup truck. He had to be physically stopped from beating the crap out of the person who shot him…ended up with a really, really bad rash, but no immediate threat to his life. He was wearing a hunting vest over a Carhartt jacket.

Go to #4 buck, at minimum.
 
HansGruber said:
Birdshot rarely penetrates enough to be a physically stopping wound, and if you live someplace where it’s cold this time of year, birdshot will be severely compromised by winter clothing.

I know someone who got shot in the back with birdshot whole hunting—distance was the length of a pickup truck. He had to be physically stopped from beating the crap out of the person who shot him…ended up with a really, really bad rash, but no immediate threat to his life. He was wearing a hunting vest over a Carhartt jacket.

Go to #4 buck, at minimum.
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Dayum...
 
HansGruber said:
Birdshot rarely penetrates enough to be a physically stopping wound, and if you live someplace where it’s cold this time of year, birdshot will be severely compromised by winter clothing.

I know someone who got shot in the back with birdshot whole hunting—distance was the length of a pickup truck. He had to be physically stopped from beating the crap out of the person who shot him…ended up with a really, really bad rash, but no immediate threat to his life. He was wearing a hunting vest over a Carhartt jacket.

Go to #4 buck, at minimum.
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Dick Cheney agrees
 
I believe most home defense situations begin with a pistol, and that pistol is used to make your way to whatever rifle/shotgun you can get your hands on if the situation escalates. I won't fault anyone for using whatever rifle/shotgun they have when the need arises, and I don't care if it's a stripped down model or if it is loaded up with force multipliers.
 
HansGruber said:
Birdshot rarely penetrates enough to be a physically stopping wound, and if you live someplace where it’s cold this time of year, birdshot will be severely compromised by winter clothing.

I know someone who got shot in the back with birdshot whole hunting—distance was the length of a pickup truck. He had to be physically stopped from beating the crap out of the person who shot him…ended up with a really, really bad rash, but no immediate threat to his life. He was wearing a hunting vest over a Carhartt jacket.

Go to #4 buck, at minimum.
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Wow. Okay thx a ton Bassbob & HansGruber for the real world eye opening info. Gonna use the birdshot shells for practice rds & go all 00 buck. Yeah don’t think I’d’ve been pulled off beating the idiot who shot me in the back !!
 
HayesGreener said:
I prefer #4 buckshot. I witnessed two different felons rehabilitated with that load and it made me a believer. Of course the 00 would have done the same job. Now reaching out to touch someone at distance is a slug job.
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So sabots or any slugs is a good call for typical HD scenarios ? Haven’t done any research on that - curious what y’all think of slugs in an unrifled shotgun under 50 ft for HD .. for ‘conversation’ w/ the uninvited.
 
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