Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled Top 5 Hellcat Red Dot Optics and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/top-5-hellcat-red-dot-optics/.
Top 5 Hellcat Red Dot Optics
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
Excellent article! Does the SWAMP optic co-witness with the Hellcat’s sights?Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled Top 5 Hellcat Red Dot Optics and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/top-5-hellcat-red-dot-optics/.
I can speak from personal experience that no it does not. The Swampfox Sentinel will obstruct approximately the bottom 2/3rds of the Hellcat's front sight. IMHO that's unacceptable for a carry gun.
From my research the only optics currently available that will not obstruct the Hellcat's sights are:
- Shield RMSc/SMSc/RMSw
- JPoint
- Sig Romeo 0
- Holosun 407K/507K, but these require milling to remove the rear recoil lugs and shorten the front recoil lugs on the Hellcat OSP to make them fit.
I did find this for the Holosuns, but I have no idea what it does to the sight picture since I don't own one. It's an adapter plate to allow mounting the Holosuns without modifying the slide:
Springfield Hellcat w/ RMSc Footprint to Holosun 407k / 507k Adapter Plate - C&H Precision Weapons
The version 1 of these plates are discontinued, and a version 2 is currently in production. Version 2 plates are expected to ship Mid November. This is the optics adapter plate for the newly released Springfield Hellcat with RMSc Optic Cut. This plate is required to mount a Holosun 507k / 407k...
chpws.com
Last edited:
Lock n' Load
Custom
I have the Shield RMSc on my Hellcat. No problems so far and, after training with it for a little over 2 months, it gets me on target quickly. I recommend a red dot for everyone, especially those of us "older folks" with "senior vision". It really helps speed and accuracy, especially at distance!
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Mine has sported an SMSc for the better part of 7 months, and although I've not been to the range as much/often as I'd like and haven't shot it as much as I'd like, I do really like the sight. I did remount it a little while ago, although it ultimately turned out to not have been necessary.
I felt like it should have a touch of "Loktite" on the screws which I didn't apply on the first go-round. I took it off, cleaned the screws and screw holes, added a little "Loktite" and remounted it. It went right back to the original adjustment with the remount, so it apparently had not moved at all. Anyway, I feel better about it now and love it.
It co-witnesses 100% with the 'Ball in the bucket' factory iron sights and since I do a considerable amount of in-house dry fire practice, I can find the dot and have it on target PDQ.
I felt like it should have a touch of "Loktite" on the screws which I didn't apply on the first go-round. I took it off, cleaned the screws and screw holes, added a little "Loktite" and remounted it. It went right back to the original adjustment with the remount, so it apparently had not moved at all. Anyway, I feel better about it now and love it.
It co-witnesses 100% with the 'Ball in the bucket' factory iron sights and since I do a considerable amount of in-house dry fire practice, I can find the dot and have it on target PDQ.
I've heard people say that the Sig Romeo 0 does NOT co-witness, that it is 2/3 blocked like the Swampfox.I can speak from personal experience that no it does not. The Swampfox Sentinel will obstruct approximately the bottom 2/3rds of the Hellcat's front sight. IMHO that's unacceptable for a carry gun.
From my research the only optics currently available that will not obstruct the Hellcat's sights are:
- Shield RMSc/SMSc/RMSw
- JPoint
- Sig Romeo 0
- Holosun 407K/507K, but these require milling to remove the rear recoil lugs and shorten the front recoil lugs on the Hellcat OSP to make them fit.
I did find this for the Holosuns, but I have no idea what it does to the sight picture since I don't own one. It's an adapter plate to allow mounting the Holosuns without modifying the slide:
Springfield Hellcat w/ RMSc Footprint to Holosun 407k / 507k Adapter Plate - C&H Precision Weapons
The version 1 of these plates are discontinued, and a version 2 is currently in production. Version 2 plates are expected to ship Mid November. This is the optics adapter plate for the newly released Springfield Hellcat with RMSc Optic Cut. This plate is required to mount a Holosun 507k / 407k...
RZ co witnesses just fine. I have one, and this forum has several pictures showing it.
Romeo zero on a Hellcat
"................ I’m 85 and dots make my shooting possible.........." Grump Good lord, somebody here I can actually call 'the old man'! Howdy Grump. regards, jumpinjoe
www.thearmorylife.com
Ok, cool thanks for the info. The other ppl might have installed in wrong or just not know what they were talking about....lol
SayHelloToMyLittleFriend
Alpha
There's a correction you might want to make to the article - Trijicon makes two Hellcat models. One for the regular slide that uses the rear sight dovetail and another for the OSP that requires an adapter plate to use the optics mount. I haven't used or seen either version, but did want to put that out there.
Been watching this thread and want to pose a few questions about modifying the Hellcat to take the Holosun 407k. Yes, you apparently need to file down the rear posts, and also reduce the front ones by half. That said, what purpose do these posts serve beyond helping to position another sight? And don't the screws actually do that already? Once an optic is tightened down with the screws, I'm not sure I see the posts as doing anything as they are completely passive. The optic isn't going to move in any direction because the screws bear that burden. If so, then we'd have to conclude the four posts don't really serve much of a purpose. That's question #1
Question #2 is -- if there is some agreement the posts DON'T serve a purpose (beyond that mentioned above), wouldn't filing them down actually allow the Hellcat to receive even more optics, as long as the screws line up?
Why? I'm debating the wisdom of trimming down the posts. Not terribly concerned about resale value, but that's a factor to consider. I'm not a hobbyist and this will likely be a "one and done" purchase since it's mostly for personal self-defense, not competition or anything else beyond just plinking for fun and practice at the range.
Happy Thanksgiving - let the debate rage on!
Question #2 is -- if there is some agreement the posts DON'T serve a purpose (beyond that mentioned above), wouldn't filing them down actually allow the Hellcat to receive even more optics, as long as the screws line up?
Why? I'm debating the wisdom of trimming down the posts. Not terribly concerned about resale value, but that's a factor to consider. I'm not a hobbyist and this will likely be a "one and done" purchase since it's mostly for personal self-defense, not competition or anything else beyond just plinking for fun and practice at the range.
Happy Thanksgiving - let the debate rage on!
My understanding is that they're additional points of contact that the optic can use to mitigate the effects of recoil on the mounting screws. If the optic is made to sit properly on those lugs it'll take stress off the screws, in theory reducing the chance of a screw breaking under recoil and your optic flying off the slide. Of course that would depend on the optic being made to take advantage of them.
Having said that, the Holosuns are obviously not made to require them so filing them down does open up more options. As long as the mounting screws are up to the task it shouldn't be a problem.
Having said that, the Holosuns are obviously not made to require them so filing them down does open up more options. As long as the mounting screws are up to the task it shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks for that reply EE, and you bring up the key question - are they there to relieve stress on the screws? If so, then I'd lean heavily in favor of the ones ready to go with no mods (likely for me the Sentinel given all the good reviews), but if not, I think the 407K might very well be my choice.
One way to determine would be to compare the mounting on other guns for similarities. If everyone has multiple passive posts, then it likely has a functional benefit as you mention. If not, then its just a unique aspect of the HC and Springfield would need to explain its purpose.
Of course I can just add the adapter plate to marry the Holosun to the HC with no mod, but want to make sure it doesn't add too much height/weight. https://chpws.com/product/springfield-hellcat-to-holosun-407k-507k-adapter-plate.
One must question...is the 407K worth the trouble/expense vs the Sentinel?
One way to determine would be to compare the mounting on other guns for similarities. If everyone has multiple passive posts, then it likely has a functional benefit as you mention. If not, then its just a unique aspect of the HC and Springfield would need to explain its purpose.
Of course I can just add the adapter plate to marry the Holosun to the HC with no mod, but want to make sure it doesn't add too much height/weight. https://chpws.com/product/springfield-hellcat-to-holosun-407k-507k-adapter-plate.
One must question...is the 407K worth the trouble/expense vs the Sentinel?
Just noticed CH Precision Weapons (maker of the adapter plate) refers to them as " recoil posts," (suggesting anyway) that they are there to lessen any recoil effect. I've also reached out to Swampfox for their take on it.
It occurs to me that the adapter plate would be very easy to replicate for cents on a 3D printer.
It occurs to me that the adapter plate would be very easy to replicate for cents on a 3D printer.
If the front and rear sides of the 507K fit precisely/snuggly in the OSP cutout (no extra space at front or rear - see photo), then shouldn't that provide more than adequate front to back recoil stabilization and make the recoil posts unnecessary? Another point that suggests that is the Swampfox site, were they state:
Other pistols that can be a candidate for the Sentinel, but will require a skilled gunsmith to machine the slide before mounting are:
Other pistols that can be a candidate for the Sentinel, but will require a skilled gunsmith to machine the slide before mounting are:
- Glock G48 and G43X
- Glock G36 and G30S
- Smith and Wesson Shield
- Sig P365/P365XL (Non RMSC versions)
- Walther PPS
- Any non RMSc model of 1911 or 2011 format pistols.
Last edited:
Agreed, typically having a slide milled to accept a dot means a flat surface. As long as the screws are solid I would think the Holosuns will be fine.
Please see my post above about the Swampfox. I had one and it seemed like a solid optic (I mounted but never fired it), but it will block most of the iron sights if you have a Hellcat OSP. If you're having a non-OSP slide milled to fit the Swampfox then maybe you can have that problem solved by mounting it lower.
Please see my post above about the Swampfox. I had one and it seemed like a solid optic (I mounted but never fired it), but it will block most of the iron sights if you have a Hellcat OSP. If you're having a non-OSP slide milled to fit the Swampfox then maybe you can have that problem solved by mounting it lower.
So you went from the Swampfox to the 507K? Mine is the OSP -- don't want the irons blocked so I can co-witness. But you say "seemed like a solid optic,"...what changed your opinion?
BTW - response from Swampfox says that the screws do "95% of the work holding an optic in place." I am becoming increasingly of the opinion that the "recoil posts" in fact have nothing to do with mitigating recoil on the optic, and are instead there to serve as positioning guides to ensure optics are properly aligned. You can still make the case the screws do that too...so there's that. If thats the case, grinding them down really has little impact on anything.
BTW - response from Swampfox says that the screws do "95% of the work holding an optic in place." I am becoming increasingly of the opinion that the "recoil posts" in fact have nothing to do with mitigating recoil on the optic, and are instead there to serve as positioning guides to ensure optics are properly aligned. You can still make the case the screws do that too...so there's that. If thats the case, grinding them down really has little impact on anything.
I went from the Swampfox to nothing at the moment. The 507K is currently my first choice but I have somewhat of an astigmatism that makes red dots a bit blurry. The 407K has a 6 moa dot which is bigger than I want. The 507K has a 2 moa dot which I'm concerned will be a bit too small for me, and I'm also concerned what a blurry 30 moa ring would look like, so I haven't bought one yet. I've been trying to find someplace where I could see one before I buy.