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Trigger bar causing Noseup FTFs

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PilatusTurbo

Alpha
Taurus is already shipping my G3 TORO back, with less than 2 week total turn around time. Excellent.

Quick update for those who did not see my post in the G3C nosedives thread: New G3 TORO was having consistent nose up FTFs with all magazines and with FMJ ammo. Consistently was over 25 times in first 500+ rounds.

Anyway, Taurus responded to email correspondence within 24 hours both times, offering pre paid shipping back to them. I had explained in detail, what ammo types, what magazines, etc and they did not ask any questions.

It's on its way back today, will have tomorrow, hopefully. I called to confirm something, and asked what, if anything, they had fixed. If they stated not able to replicate, is consider the gun as a paperweight moving forward.

They stated that the trigger bar was adjusted, and no other actions or repairs were needed. A trigger bar can cause FTFs? I'll be the first to admit, while I'm good at tinkering, I'm no technician or firearms engineer. Trigger bar.. they also stated that 30 rounds of 115gr FMJ Winchester was test fired. Interesting.


Just curious if anyone else has heard of this oddball issue causing failures. I've owned several Taurus G series guns, such as the G2C, G3C, and a G3 standard. This is the first Taurus I've ever had issues with. Just wanted to qualify this post with that.

I'm hoping I receive it tomorrow and can take it out on Saturday. I'm also asking for opinions on this, because it's just odd. I'm trying to decide whether I even want to spend another 250 rounds on the gun.

Thanks for reading
 
Not quite, but close. The nose of the FMJ round would make it into the chamber, but would be jammed into the top dead center of the chamber at a steep angle about halfway in, and the rim of the round was still caught in the feed lips. Tap rack bang would automatically induce a double feed. I'm surprised they didn't mention extractor tension; maybe the extractor is so tight the rim is having trouble getting up under it during feeding.

They're the pros, so I just hope it'll feed. I just don't wanna dump a few hundred more rounds into testing, unless I can somewhat determine if this is an actual cause of failures and has now been fixed. If this is iffy, I'd rather just sell it at a loss. It was given a clean bill of health by them, so it's not on me anymore. This could not be replicated by me, during hand cycling, but that doesn't really matter anyway. I learned a while ago, hand cycling tells us virtually nothing about how a gun will live fire feed and function.
 
Well ive known 2 peeps who use to own tarurus g 2s either ran well and only with certain types of ammo. Have another bud whose runs like the wind. So i guess its hit miss with Taurus. Save up buy guns with great reviews .
 
Domar1291 said:
Well ive known 2 peeps who use to own tarurus g 2s either ran well and only with certain types of ammo. Have another bud whose runs like the wind. So i guess its hit miss with Taurus. Save up buy guns with great reviews .
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the same can be said for Springfield Armory, Smith & Wesson, Dan Wesson, Kimber, Glock, CZ, Ruger, and so on and so forth.

they are all very good companies, that produce very fine hand guns, but occasionally one get's messed up on the assembly line or molding/cooling process, machining process.

saving up to buy guns with "great reviews", is a cop out response for someone to use, all cuz he thinks some company's produce bad products.

even the High Point a very low end gun, has very good reviews, and a bad one can show up...........
 
Old_Me said:
the same can be said for Springfield Armory, Smith & Wesson, Dan Wesson, Kimber, Glock, CZ, Ruger, and so on and so forth.

they are all very good companies, that produce very fine hand guns, but occasionally one get's messed up on the assembly line or molding/cooling process, machining process.

saving up to buy guns with "great reviews", is a cop out response for someone to use, all cuz he thinks some company's produce bad products.

even the High Point a very low end gun, has very good reviews, and a bad one can show up...........
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You know my glocks have never been returned for rework altho i agree with u on most can have an issue, enjoy
 
The point is, every gun company can and will have lemons. Yes, Glocks are known to run very well, but there are documented Glock issues, too. Even almighty Glock can have failures. It's a machine. I'm fine with Glock, own a couple.

Taurus has a past of producing more lemons/junk than other companies. That reputation will take a while to shake, but they're doing much better. Their modern stuff is just fine.
 
PilatusTurbo said:
The point is, every gun company can and will have lemons. Yes, Glocks are known to run very well, but there are documented Glock issues, too. Even almighty Glock can have failures. It's a machine. I'm fine with Glock, own a couple.

Taurus has a past of producing more lemons/junk than other companies. That reputation will take a while to shake, but they're doing much better. Their modern stuff is just fine.
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I bought 2 SA 35s. Springfield's hi powers knowing about the extractor issues. 1 had issues extracting. I purchased quality parts and fixed it myself. So point being i agree anything mechanical can fail, or have issues. I read all the reviews on my purchase b 4 buying. I knew what i was taking a chance on. However im still very happy with the purchase and the problem one is running gr8 so far.
 
Domar1291 said:
I bought 2 SA 35s. Springfield's hi powers knowing about the extractor issues. 1 had issues extracting. I purchased quality parts and fixed it myself. So point being i agree anything mechanical can fail, or have issues. I read all the reviews on my purchase b 4 buying. I knew what i was taking a chance on. However im still very happy with the purchase and the problem one is running gr8 so far.
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i watch video reviews form well known people that get thier guns for testing, thru "Bud's Gun shop", and not the manufacturer. this way, they are not beholding to give a good review for a gun that can be problematic.

i stay away from the gun makers websites and thier reviews. common sense, they ain't gonna talk bad about thier own products.
 
Old_Me said:
i watch video reviews form well known people that get thier guns for testing, thru "Bud's Gun shop", and not the manufacturer. this way, they are not beholding to give a good review for a gun that can be problematic.

i stay away from the gun makers websites and thier reviews. common sense, they ain't gonna talk bad about thier own products.
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8AE9208A-5F1C-4B89-9CBB-3BA72C37581D.gif

😬😬😬😬
 
Yeah, I discovered the principle cause for failures. I highly doubt that their "repair" to the trigger bar did anything. I attached photos.

G3 barrel on left, and G3C on the right. The circled area below is where the FMJ rounds are hanging up; I only circled one side so you can clearly see it on the other. You can see the chamfer around the chamber is very nice, except it ends with those points where the feed ramp edges meet up with it. Looking back at it, and recreating the issue in slow motion, That is exactly where things were hanging up during live fire.
6ovBvQJ.jpg

GYcKhoM.jpg


I took the polishing compound out and hit the area around the feed ramp and chamber. You can see huge differences in the feed ramp geometry. Before anyone gives me the "it's that way for a reason" lecture :LOL: , I circled the exact points where I noticed the rounds hanging up. If it doesn't work, oh well. I wasn't going to send it back for another trip to them. At this point, as @Domar1291 said, I'll just work on it. Maybe I get it running, maybe I don't.

I decided to void the warranty and I'm going to mess around with it. Even if it ends up being my jam-O-matic. I noticed, finally, the problem with feeding FMJ rounds, and their "repairs" would not have done anything. I didn't feel right about passing it on, Then someone else may depend on the weapon as a home defense tool, and that's no-go. Taking a loss on top of that, too.
 
PilatusTurbo said:
Yeah, I discovered the principle cause for failures. I highly doubt that their "repair" to the trigger bar did anything. I attached photos.

G3 barrel on left, and G3C on the right. The circled area below is where the FMJ rounds are hanging up; I only circled one side so you can clearly see it on the other. You can see the chamfer around the chamber is very nice, except it ends with those points where the feed ramp edges meet up with it. Looking back at it, and recreating the issue in slow motion, That is exactly where things were hanging up during live fire.
6ovBvQJ.jpg

GYcKhoM.jpg


I took the polishing compound out and hit the area around the feed ramp and chamber. You can see huge differences in the feed ramp geometry. Before anyone gives me the "it's that way for a reason" lecture :LOL: , I circled the exact points where I noticed the rounds hanging up. If it doesn't work, oh well. I wasn't going to send it back for another trip to them. At this point, as @Domar1291 said, I'll just work on it. Maybe I get it running, maybe I don't.

I decided to void the warranty and I'm going to mess around with it. Even if it ends up being my jam-O-matic. I noticed, finally, the problem with feeding FMJ rounds, and their "repairs" would not have done anything. I didn't feel right about passing it on, Then someone else may depend on the weapon as a home defense tool, and that's no-go. Taking a loss on top of that, too.
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I would put a shine on that whole feed ramp so there’s no chance the round is being slowed down by what looks to be a very rough surface.
 
I did do just that. I also used the polishing compound and polishing tips to clean that edge up. The line of the feed ramp where it funneled upward and met the actual chamber opening was not chamfered like the rest of the chamber opening. I worked pretty diligently to clean that up and smooth it out, and also open the funneling up a bit, more like the G3C's barrel.

Before and after:
2XHmbAN.jpg

ZFRXjj3.jpg

I did take it to the range today, and out of 300 rounds (250 FMJ and 50 Win 115 gr JHP) all FMJ ammo ran accordingly, and out of all 4 magazines. I did still have a couple of JHP hangups on the bottom of the feed ramp, exactly as they had done in hand cycling. I guess hand cycling can tell us some things, if they're duplicated during live fire. However, I replaced the recoil spring assembly with the Lakeline LLC RSA I had on hand about halfway through the whole firing cycle and the nosedive failure did not occur again. All 250 rounds of FMJ ran fine both before and after the RSA swap. I think the OEM RSA is just too weak; the Lakeline is a bit stiffer, and a quality piece of work.

I'm beginning to trust the gun a bit more, again. It's mine, I own it now... I don't think their warranty repair did anything, and I don't really have faith in their warranty anymore, even though their turnaround time was impressive.

If it continues to run nicely like it did today, I'll be fine. I will continue to work on it, slowly so as to not overdo anything. I wish It wouldn't hang up sometimes while racking a JHP into the chamber. I'll have to find a different JHP with a more rounded nose to help prevent that. I even did polish up the bottom edge of the feed ramp very nicely, but didn't want to be too aggressive and risk drastically changing any geometry.
 
PilatusTurbo said:
I did do just that. I also used the polishing compound and polishing tips to clean that edge up. The line of the feed ramp where it funneled upward and met the actual chamber opening was not chamfered like the rest of the chamber opening. I worked pretty diligently to clean that up and smooth it out, and also open the funneling up a bit, more like the G3C's barrel.

Before and after:
2XHmbAN.jpg

ZFRXjj3.jpg

I did take it to the range today, and out of 300 rounds (250 FMJ and 50 Win 115 gr JHP) all FMJ ammo ran accordingly, and out of all 4 magazines. I did still have a couple of JHP hangups on the bottom of the feed ramp, exactly as they had done in hand cycling. I guess hand cycling can tell us some things, if they're duplicated during live fire. However, I replaced the recoil spring assembly with the Lakeline LLC RSA I had on hand about halfway through the whole firing cycle and the nosedive failure did not occur again. All 250 rounds of FMJ ran fine both before and after the RSA swap. I think the OEM RSA is just too weak; the Lakeline is a bit stiffer, and a quality piece of work.

I'm beginning to trust the gun a bit more, again. It's mine, I own it now... I don't think their warranty repair did anything, and I don't really have faith in their warranty anymore, even though their turnaround time was impressive.

If it continues to run nicely like it did today, I'll be fine. I will continue to work on it, slowly so as to not overdo anything. I wish It wouldn't hang up sometimes while racking a JHP into the chamber. I'll have to find a different JHP with a more rounded nose to help prevent that. I even did polish up the bottom edge of the feed ramp very nicely, but didn't want to be too aggressive and risk drastically changing any geometry.
Click to expand...
Looks a lot better now, good job!
 
PilatusTurbo said:
I did do just that. I also used the polishing compound and polishing tips to clean that edge up. The line of the feed ramp where it funneled upward and met the actual chamber opening was not chamfered like the rest of the chamber opening. I worked pretty diligently to clean that up and smooth it out, and also open the funneling up a bit, more like the G3C's barrel.

Before and after:
2XHmbAN.jpg

ZFRXjj3.jpg

I did take it to the range today, and out of 300 rounds (250 FMJ and 50 Win 115 gr JHP) all FMJ ammo ran accordingly, and out of all 4 magazines. I did still have a couple of JHP hangups on the bottom of the feed ramp, exactly as they had done in hand cycling. I guess hand cycling can tell us some things, if they're duplicated during live fire. However, I replaced the recoil spring assembly with the Lakeline LLC RSA I had on hand about halfway through the whole firing cycle and the nosedive failure did not occur again. All 250 rounds of FMJ ran fine both before and after the RSA swap. I think the OEM RSA is just too weak; the Lakeline is a bit stiffer, and a quality piece of work.

I'm beginning to trust the gun a bit more, again. It's mine, I own it now... I don't think their warranty repair did anything, and I don't really have faith in their warranty anymore, even though their turnaround time was impressive.

If it continues to run nicely like it did today, I'll be fine. I will continue to work on it, slowly so as to not overdo anything. I wish It wouldn't hang up sometimes while racking a JHP into the chamber. I'll have to find a different JHP with a more rounded nose to help prevent that. I even did polish up the bottom edge of the feed ramp very nicely, but didn't want to be too aggressive and risk drastically changing any geometry.
Click to expand...
Looks great.
 
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