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Understanding the Hellcat U-Dot Sights

The Hellcat was my first experience with U-Dot sights. The first time I fired the Hellcat, I shot incredibly accurately at 3 yds., 5 yds., and 7 yds., but my groups opened up quite a bit at 10 yds. and 15 yds. At the time, I figured that this was acceptable because the Hellcat was primarily designed as a self-defense gun and was not designed to be shot at longer distances. My longer-distance groups have improved with practice, but I'm still not as accurate at 15 yds. and 25 yds. as I am with other sight systems.

The first handgun I trained with used a Figure 8/Snowman sight system, but my next few pistols had 3-Dot setups. I still shoot well with both of these systems, but my preferred setup is a tritium or fiber-optic front with a blacked-out rear. I think the Hellcat sights are great for an EDC/CCW handgun, and are perfectly acceptable for home defense. They just wouldn't be my first choice for competition or long-distance shooting.
 
conax said:
In total darkness target identification would be a little iffy. If an attacker is within a few yards, putting the front post on center mass (of the inky silhouette) will get you a hit, I imagine. Then you find out it was your mother-in-law going to the head. ;)
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I use a combat light for target identification before pulling the trigger at night. Besides, mother-in-law is deceased and our some is a 20+ year retired law enforcement officer who knows better than to sneak into the home of a combat veteran, but I appreciate your concern.
Getting the sights ready for an encounter was my point and once the target is acquired then the front sight is the only thing you will probably see. Wished I had them on our M2 HB 50 in vietnam.
 
The red dot is generally going to be well above your iron sights. Only by raising the pistol so that the dot is in the lower part of the optic's glass will it then be sitting right atop the front sight. To be fast with a red dot, you don't want to complicate things by trying to line up the irons and the dot...just the dot. The dot can be anywhere on the glass and that is pretty much where you'll hit.

IMO a poor practice technique is to use your iron sights to find the dot. Better to start by practicing your point shooting skills...dry fire practice with a laser. Once you can keep all of your point shooting shots on a light switch at 7 yards, then mount up that red dot and now that dot will be pretty much centered in the glass and on the target.

 
I do like the U-Dot sights. Like them on the Cats and am enjoying them now on the XDM Elite Compact 10mm. The XDM has the rear U-Dot but a fiber optic front. When the lighting is right, I really like the fiber optic front sight. But when that fiber isn't lit, I'm wishing for tritium.

Why fiber rather than tritium? More precise? Lower cost?...maybe, but I don't think the XDM Elite is a platform more price sensitive than the Hellcat. Or is the 10mm just more likely to be outfitted with a dot than the Hellcat?
 
AmbGun said:
The red dot is generally going to be well above your iron sights. Only by raising the pistol so that the dot is in the lower part of the optic's glass will it then be sitting right atop the front sight. To be fast with a red dot, you don't want to complicate things by trying to line up the irons and the dot...just the dot. The dot can be anywhere on the glass and that is pretty much where you'll hit.

IMO a poor practice technique is to use your iron sights to find the dot. Better to start by practicing your point shooting skills...dry fire practice with a laser. Once you can keep all of your point shooting shots on a light switch at 7 yards, then mount up that red dot and now that dot will be pretty much centered in the glass and on the target.

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The dot can be anywhere on the glass and that is pretty much where you'll hit.
I'm afraid I don't agree. The gun shoots where it shoots. Moving the dot around to a more convenient position is not going to change the point of impact. On my Hellcat the point of impact (at close range) was right on top of the front post when the sight picture is aligned properly. You can make your dot more easy to find by raising it up, but how does that move the point of impact?
Maybe shooting at man sized targets from 20 feet it doesn't matter. Shooting at small targets, it certainly does.
A conveniently raised dot means you would be shooting quite low, and I hate it when that happens.

I've shot the Hellcat quite regularly and when I bring it to bear, the dot is presented. Right on top of the front sight.
 
HansGruber said:
I very much like the U-notch/bold front sight concept. Muted rear tritium is nice, but not necessary.

The stock night sights on the FN-X’s are a prime example...I think they’re made by Warren Tactical? Muted yellow rear dots, nice bright green front with a large white ring...fast, and accurate.

S&W also had the right idea with their Night Guard series of revolvers; an XS Tritium Big Dot front, and a Cylinder & Slide (iirc) fixed rear U-notch with no tritium. Anyone who says the Big Dot isn’t an accurate sight...we’ll, Ive hot soda cans at 25 yards using that system...it'll do just fine.

I liked the sights on the Hellcat I shot...it would be nice if they brought it out for other pistols.
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Absolutely love the U-notch dot front sight. In a stressful situation eliminates the chance of lining up the front dot to the left or right of the rear dots.
 
conax said:
The dot can be anywhere on the glass and that is pretty much where you'll hit.
I'm afraid I don't agree. The gun shoots where it shoots. Moving the dot around to a more convenient position is not going to change the point of impact. On my Hellcat the point of impact (at close range) was right on top of the front post when the sight picture is aligned properly. You can make your dot more easy to find by raising it up, but how does that move the point of impact?
Maybe shooting at man sized targets from 20 feet it doesn't matter. Shooting at small targets, it certainly does.
A conveniently raised dot means you would be shooting quite low, and I hate it when that happens.

I've shot the Hellcat quite regularly and when I bring it to bear, the dot is presented. Right on top of the front sight.
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After you sight in the dot it does not matter where it is located when looking through the glass. It could be center, top center, top right, etc. The bullet will hit where the dot is. If you have irons (you don't have to have them with a red dot), and you use those to line up the target then the dot will in fact be be right behind your front sight.

If you are trying to use your iron sights together with the dot making sure the irons and the dot are lined up together, then you are not using it correctly. What makes a dot quick is that once sighted in you do not need to use your irons at all. When you see the dot in the glass put it on target and shoot. The only purpose for the irons is a backup in case the dot does not work.
 
fatjimmy said:
After you sight in the dot it does not matter where it is located when looking through the glass. It could be center, top center, top right, etc. The bullet will hit where the dot is. If you have irons (you don't have to have them with a red dot), and you use those to line up the target then the dot will in fact be be right behind your front sight.

If you are trying to use your iron sights together with the dot making sure the irons and the dot are lined up together, then you are not using it correctly. What makes a dot quick is that once sighted in you do not need to use your irons at all. When you see the dot in the glass put it on target and shoot. The only purpose for the irons is a backup in case the dot does not work.
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If you have irons (you don't have to have them with a red dot), and you use those to line up the target then the dot will in fact be be right behind your front sight.

That's right. That's what I said. The dot just makes shooting simpler, rather than aligning both sights and the target, just put the dot on the target, which is the whole point of spending $300 on it. It isn't placed above the front sight for convenience. That will make you shoot low.
 
What I am talking about here is a red dot on a handgun. If the dot is not more or less in the center at very long distances it can be off a small amount. With practical distances of a handgun though the bullet will hit where the dot is.
 
conax said:
The dot can be anywhere on the glass and that is pretty much where you'll hit.
I'm afraid I don't agree. The gun shoots where it shoots. Moving the dot around to a more convenient position is not going to change the point of impact. On my Hellcat the point of impact (at close range) was right on top of the front post when the sight picture is aligned properly. You can make your dot more easy to find by raising it up, but how does that move the point of impact?
Maybe shooting at man sized targets from 20 feet it doesn't matter. Shooting at small targets, it certainly does.
A conveniently raised dot means you would be shooting quite low, and I hate it when that happens.

I've shot the Hellcat quite regularly and when I bring it to bear, the dot is presented. Right on top of the front sight.
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Easy hypothesis to test.

Use a training laser, get the dot zeroed so that your laser's point of impact matches your dot. Now move your eye's alignment with the optic so that the dot is in the upper left corner of the optic's glass...Fire a shot...the laser's point of impact will be on. Move your eye's alignment with the optic so that the dot is in the upper left corner of the optic's glass, fire the shot, point of impact will be at the dot again...the optic's glass is curved such that this works no matter how poor your eye alignment is with the pistol, you can shoot from awkward positions and as long as you can see the dot, it will be on the point of impact....at least for all practical purposes.

When you present your Hellcat and the dot is right on top of the front sight, that is probably muscle memory from using iron sights. You don't need to bring your head down so much with red dots. Just to reduce the risk of losing your dot, you want your eye alignment to put the dot pretty much centered in the optic's glass or, if dealing with a snappy recoil, maybe a little high.
 
I just purchased a Hellcat Pro but I would like a rear sight that is visible in very low light. The issue is I really like the U sight and, though I can find lots of options in rear night sights, I have not found a U night sight. Are you aware of one? Thanks
 
KLGunner said:
They are if you look at the Elites some have them installed as well.
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My XDM Elite Compact .45 has the U-Notch rear and fiber optic front site, and it's a really nice set up. I'd maybe swap the fiber optic front for a tritium one if I had to nitpick, but it's a REALLY nice contrast and I wish more would follow.
 
jg7789 said:
Great article! I've never really liked the "three dot" set up as I found all the dots a bit confusing when trying fast snap shot.s This seems like a really good solution that would be easy to pick up. Anyone here have a Hellcat with these and used them? What do you think?
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Best sights of any of my 11 handguns. Very intuitive and easy to see with or without my glasses. In fact slightly better without classes.
 
Midwest said:
I just purchased a Hellcat Pro but I would like a rear sight that is visible in very low light. The issue is I really like the U sight and, though I can find lots of options in rear night sights, I have not found a U night sight. Are you aware of one? Thanks
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I would also be interested in one
 
Great article. I can’t wait to check these sights out for myself.
 
conax said:
Like JumpinJoe my dot is adjusted to lie on the top of the front post, dead center. I don't know about hitting tacks but I can hit a 3" orange target ball regularly at 25 yards. Not every shot, it's a wee pistol after all.
I also did a check where I moved the gun off to one side til there was no light between the post and rear notch and noted the red dot position.
Then checked the other direction. The dot should move equally one side to the other. This verifies the centering as best as possible for me. If the sights are on target, the dot should be aligned to them.
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Exactly. Target should always be top of front sight. So naturally you want red dote to be the same. That's how sights are to. Love the hellcat.
 
I like them enough I ditched the red dot. I'm faster and more accurate with a red dot when shooting for fun. However, under a shot timer with any kind of stress at normal self defense distances, I'm quicker with the irons. Side benefit is the gun conceals better as well! I still don't know if I like the bright white paint for the U. Might put some electrical tape on it just to see if it's better blacked out.
 
Well, my reply is quite late compared to the article date. However, I just bought a Hellcat Pro with the U rear sight and the optic plate. I bought the Hellcat Pro because it feels good in my hand, has an optic plate, a 3.6" barrel, and great capacity. I was lucky, five magazines and a carry bag came with it all for the regular price. This is my carry gun and I planned on adding a Holosun 507K to this gun. Now this is under consideration due to how well the sights on this gun work. I am older and my vision is not like when I was young but I can see the iron sights on this gun better than any gun own and that includes some with top of the line night sights. I think they are even better then my XS RD3 night sights on my M&P 2.0 4.5" gun and the XS sights are fantastic. The Hellcat Pro is a heck of a gun. The only downside for me is the 7 pound trigger pull. That won't last long, waiting for upgrade parts from M*CARBO so I can upgrade the trigger to smooth 4.5 pounds.
 
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