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Undocumented Immigrant Due Process

Model 457

Model 457

Operator
I saw something on the news last night that really ticked me off. There sat an immigration advocate bellyaching about the people that were deported to El Salvador and how these poor folks weren't afforded their "right" to due process. I'm not trying to spark a debate with respect to the obvious immigration issues that exist and I really don't have an opinion about the deportees.

Where I do take issue: Where the hell is the due process as applied to Red Flag laws?!! Some activist is bemoaning lack of due process for non-citizens insisting due process is a cornerstone of America yet some anonymous person, a person the victim is not allowed to confront, can call the local police and have that person disarmed without any sort of due process whatsoever.

Years ago, I had a friend that was in the middle of a really nasty divorce. Both sides were playing dirty. The wife waved the red flag and in an instant, my friend's firearms were taken. He is not a violent guy. There was no history of violence. No threats had been made. The simple fact of the matter was she knew how important his collection was to him and dealt a dirty hand to hurt him. Three years later he is still fighting to recover his collection. Some really collectable and valuable stuff was confiscated including firearms that had been handed down from as far back as his great grandfather. All of this occurred completely devoid of due process.

I swear to god my head is going to explode if I hear another immigration activist snivel about due process while the Red Flag laws exist in their current form. I'm all for disarming a dangerous person but I do take extreme exception to the egregious and intentional act of trampling a persons Second, Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights.

I now return you to your normal programming.....
 
Model 457 said:
I saw something on the news last night that really ticked me off. There sat an immigration advocate bellyaching about the people that were deported to El Salvador and how these poor folks weren't afforded their "right" to due process. I'm not trying to spark a debate with respect to the obvious immigration issues that exist and I really don't have an opinion about the deportees.

Where I do take issue: Where the hell is the due process as applied to Red Flag laws?!! Some activist is bemoaning lack of due process for non-citizens insisting due process is a cornerstone of America yet some anonymous person, a person the victim is not allowed to confront, can call the local police and have that person disarmed without any sort of due process whatsoever.

Years ago, I had a friend that was in the middle of a really nasty divorce. Both sides were playing dirty. The wife waved the red flag and in an instant, my friend's firearms were taken. He is not a violent guy. There was no history of violence. No threats had been made. The simple fact of the matter was she knew how important his collection was to him and dealt a dirty hand to hurt him. Three years later he is still fighting to recover his collection. Some really collectable and valuable stuff was confiscated including firearms that had been handed down from as far back as his great grandfather. All of this occurred completely devoid of due process.

I swear to god my head is going to explode if I hear another immigration activist snivel about due process while the Red Flag laws exist in their current form. I'm all for disarming a dangerous person but I do take extreme exception to the egregious and intentional act of trampling a persons Second, Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights.

I now return you to your normal programming.....
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I get you. And what was the "process" these illegal criminals went through when they invaded our country? Activists seem to forget that simple fact. Illegal criminals don't get "due process", as they don't respect processes to begin with.
 

Below is the crux of the problem. Do we need a new Consitutional Amendment to solve this issue? ​

Right to due process​

What the law says: The Fifth Amendment states that “no person … shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.”

The issue of due process is at the heart of many immigration cases, including Reno v. Flores, the 1993 Supreme Court case that has returned to the spotlight with the surge in family separations. The case led to an agreement requiring the government to release children to their parents, a relative or a licensed program within 20 days.

In the ruling, Justice Antonin Scalia wrote “it is well established that the Fifth Amendment entitles aliens to due process of law in deportation proceedings.”

The right to legal counsel​

What the law says: The Sixth Amendment states that “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall…have the assistance of counsel for his defense.”

The Supreme Court ruled in the 1963 case Gideon v Wainwright that if a person is too poor to hire an attorney, the government must appoint one.

How it works in practice: Because most deportation proceedings are civil rather than criminal cases, the right to legal counsel often doesn’t apply.

Since most red flag seizures are civil cases and not criminal prosecutions the states have found a loophole to remove firearms. To me if an individual is so "dangerous" as to warrant a red flag then perhaps that person should be detained and evaluated before seeing a judge and leave the guns with a person who can legally keep them safe. Just my 2 cents!
 
I always joked around and said if I was in charge of deportations, I'd randomly ship deportees all over hell's half acre rather than back to where they came from. When I heard Trump was sending all of those deportees to El Salvador, I LMMFAO!!! (Laughed My Mother F A Off) Where you from? I'm from Honduras. Send this one to El Salvador boys! And you? Where are you from? I'm from Valenzuela. Valenzuela, huh? Another one for El Salvador boys!
 
Model 457 said:
I always joked around and said if I was in charge of deportations, I'd randomly ship deportees all over hell's half acre rather than back to where they came from. When I heard Trump was sending all of those deportees to El Salvador, I LMMFAO!!! (Laughed My Mother F A Off) Where you from? I'm from Honduras. Send this one to El Salvador boys! And you? Where are you from? I'm from Valenzuela. Valenzuela, huh? Another one for El Salvador boys!
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Be careful. We have some liberals on this forum! lol
 
I will say without going into detail Washington State especially King County blows. Sims ex girlfriend is extremely progressive liberal and anti gun. When she found out he bought gun she made accusations from 2018 in civil court and BAM sin had to register his handgun. This was September 2023 and he just got it back a month ago.

Why the USSC got it wrong on the Raheemy case while no doubt Raheemy was a POS he wasn’t arrested criminally for what prompted the red flag just she said they believed BS.

Illegal immigration is a little different if you can’t prove you’re a resident or legal your sort of SOL to me.
 
That crazy leftist judge that's assigned to the illegal alien deportation case wants to have individual full blown hearings for each illegal alien to be deported. Image a few thousand hearings, transportation to/from court, translators, security, court time and defense attorneys, etc. That's how they spend taxpayer money. (n)
 
az4783054 said:
That crazy leftist judge that's assigned to the illegal alien deportation case wants to have individual full blown hearings for each illegal alien to be deported. Image a few thousand hearings, transportation to/from court, translators, security, court time and defense attorneys, etc. That's how they spend taxpayer money. (n)
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Not blindly following trump doesn't make someone a crazy leftist, especially a judge who's job is to take a minute and determine legal and factual questions. How do you know each of those people are who trump says they were or were actually here illegally? Or were a violent gang member? Or what due process rights they're entitled to? Or if the president has the power to deport someone to a death camp like the Salvadoran prison, even if they were a violent illegal? This is one of those instances where I tell you people to stop and put a bit of thought into things before taking everything trump says as fact, and not the hyperbolic attacks he so prone to. I'll give GOP messaging one thing, they're very good at boiling complex, nuanced issues into short talking points designed to whip their base into a frenzy without taking the time to understand the details.
 
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