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What Ammo do You Carry and Why?

iklwa

iklwa

Master Class
We see many threads covering EDC load-outs and types of handgun choices.
I would like to know what ammunition folks actually carry in their EDC handguns and why they choose that particular brand/projectile.

My XD-S has seven rounds of 230 grain lead round nose 45 (no jacket) ACP.

Before you start laughing let me say, it has been my go-to loading for target/plinking for decades. It hits pretty hard (full power), it has good penetration and...here's possibly the best reason...it is the load invented by Mr. Browning to sort out the Army's issues. If it was good enough for JMB and LaGarde, it's good enough for me.
As an aside, 45 ACP can not rely on velocity to expand its projectiles. When fired, it has the starting diameter of the 9mm x 19 after expansion.
 
Not banging on the 230LRN...carry what you like.

But I would point out that JMB’s original design for the .45ACP when it was introduced with the M1905 specified a 200gr bullet; the Army specified a 230gr bullet in the development of the pistol that eventually became the 1911, which was only issued with “Cal. .45 Automatic Pistol Ball Cartridge, Model of 1911"—in other words, FMJ.

As far as your .45 not relying on expansion statement? That’s...a bit spurious. There are several 9mm JHP’s that expand greater than .45 reliably (often in the .55-.60 range), as well as penetrate deeply, even at lower velocities (such as out of shorter barreled pistols; in fact, there’s a number of loads tailored specifically for short barrels that perform very well at lower velocities). Add in that your .45LRN will often make a less than .45” permanent hole in tissue; the round nose allows tissue to stretch around the bullet, where an expanded 9mm will tear a full-diameter wound due to the sharp edges (if you doubt this—look at the “grease marks” on a target some time—that’s where the target paper stretched around your bullet); your .45 will actually often only tear about a .36-.38 permanent channel.

Again—this is not knocking your choice; if you are happy with it, that’s all there is to it.

And to answer your question? In handguns of caliber greater than .38spl/9mm? A quality hollow point from one of several manufacturers that has proven reliable and accurate in my pistol. In calibers .380 and less? FMJ.
 
Dear Hans,
Thanks for your comments!
These days I hear quite a bit about "advanced" projectile technologies that allow sub-caliber bullets to "...perform like the 45". I have read the same claims regarding the 380 being able to perform like the 9mm.

If all of that is true, then it would easy to extrapolate that these same manufacturers are applying those same technologies to the 45ACP, if one were wedded to the concept of the jacketed hollow point. A fully expanded 45 would have a greater expanded diameter than any 9mm.
My personal modern projectile is the Honey Badger Defense fluted bullet design. Wound cavity is based directly upon rpm.
As an aside, that original 200 grain 45 load was to be launched at 900 fps. The 230 grain was to be launched at 850 fps. The energy difference is minimal according to my calculations (9 ft. lbs.).

All I know is that the stats that I see show high capacity handguns alone do not produce quicker fight stops.
Truth be told, they don't even result in more handgun fight deaths than solid hits from a major caliber hit.
Ya can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight.

Just say'n...

Thanks again!
 
iklwa said:
Dear Hans,
Thanks for your comments!
These days I hear quite a bit about "advanced" projectile technologies that allow sub-caliber bullets to "...perform like the 45". I have read the same claims regarding the 380 being able to perform like the 9mm.

If all of that is true, then it would easy to extrapolate that these same manufacturers are applying those same technologies to the 45ACP, if one were wedded to the concept of the jacketed hollow point. A fully expanded 45 would have a greater expanded diameter than any 9mm.
My personal modern projectile is the Honey Badger Defense fluted bullet design. Wound cavity is based directly upon rpm.
As an aside, that original 200 grain 45 load was to be launched at 900 fps. The 230 grain was to be launched at 850 fps. The energy difference is minimal according to my calculations (9 ft. lbs.).

All I know is that the stats that I see show high capacity handguns alone do not produce quicker fight stops.
Truth be told, they don't even result in more handgun fight deaths than solid hits from a major caliber hit.
Ya can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight.

Just say'n...

Thanks again!
Click to expand...
True enough...

On the Honey Badger, and RPM...considering the typical twist rate of handguns (usually in the 1:12-1:16 range)...I gotta question how effective something that will make, at the most, one complete rotation in the transit of the body...it’s really not that “buzz saw” effect advertised, innit? The “fluid transfer” mumbo jumbo just strikes me as the latest iteration of the “lightweight, warp speed, game changing” bullet that keeps coming up every ten years or so, but never ever really ends up changing anything besides money in bank accounts.

I also suspect that if it was anything near as good as it was knocked up to be, you’d see some major league hitters (agencies/departments/teams/units) using it...yet there’s zero noise on this front.

And yes—all that technology that makes 9mm bullets better applies to .45’s (and .40’s) as well; the 230grHST reliable gets .80 or better; Winchester’s Ranger-T will hit 1” expansion—apples to apples, a .45 will always make a bigger hole than a 9mm...FMJ to FMJ, JHP to JHP.
 
9mm -- Federal Personal Defense 124gr
Other 9mm -- Sig Sauer Luger V-Crown

What can I say, I need some diversity 🤷‍♂️

No exact reason, just like the idea of it and have heard good things. Sig jumped out at me because of brand. Federal has always done well in my AR so I figured I'd give it a go.
 
In my 9mm’s, Sig V-Crown 115gr


1615497521988.jpeg

In my Charter Arms Bulldog, right now this is I could find, but a big chunk of lead isn’t to shabby

1615497695971.jpeg
 
In my Ruger LCP I have handloaded LRN. That's always in an ankle holster. A 13" Italian switchblade is in my pocket.

My main carry is a SA 1911A1 in Condition One with an 8-rd Kimber mag loaded, and a Wilson Combat 10-rd spare in a Snagmag. All handloaded 225 gr Copper-Plated Flat Nose at 825 fps. Adjusted my load with a chronograph.

I have over 400 lb of wheel weights and lead ingots. When I run out of the 225 gr CPFN (have several years at 10,000 rd/yr) I'll switch to casting my own powdercoated 230 gr RN using the same powder charge. A couple times a year on rainy days when no one is shooting I will mine the berms at the outdoor ranges for lead. And every couple of years I go to garages to get free wheel weights and get almost more than I can carry. Just gotta keep my smelting temp down to avoid mixing the zinc that gets through the sorting. It floats and skims off easily enough.
 
bigx5murf said:
9mm Federal HST 147gr (this been my carry for years)
9mm Super Vel 115gr+P SCHP (I discovered these recently, and wanted to support local business)
Click to expand...
Years ago when I was "active" and "involved" in serious social situations, I swore by Lee Juris's Super Vels as did many of my friends also so engaged. The .45 ACPs did expand reliably and always performed as expected in terms of stopping unwanted behavior. Seeing is believing and real situational use is far better than ballistic gel.

I was elated to see them reemerge thanks to Cameron Hopkins. Best of all, they are actually "better" because they are using powders not available the first time around. I am now adding their 9mms to my inventory for use with my Hellcat and my wife's Boberg.
 
I use HST in my 9mm’s as Hornady CD (both) has lackluster consistency and other than Ranger T, they are the 9mm king for proper penetration and expansion size. For 380 I use Hornady FTX Critical Defense. They have really good expansion, not quite the best, but they’re one of the only rounds that surpasses 12” penetration. For .40 I currently have Critical Duty but will be changing them out for Rem Ultimate Defense 180gr. REM Golden Saber expand to .82 but penetrate into 13.8”. The UD’s expand to a close second .79” and penetrate much better @ 15.5”
 
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Check my math:

45 ACP, 230 grain travels at 850 fps.

850 fps. X 12 inches = 10200 inches per second of travel

51200 rpm divided by 10200 inches = 5 revolutions of the projectile per inch traveled

Average thickness of male human thoracic (chest) portion of the body, front to back = 10 inches

5 revolutions per inch x 10 inches of penetration = 50 total revolutions passing through the average male human’s chest striking with around 360 foot pounds of energy



Regarding the Honey Badger Defender projectile:

Videos that I have seen using ballistic gelatin show massive wound cavities produced by this projectile with absolutely no deformation of the bullet profile. The same applies even when shot through clothing, dry wall, leather, automotive glass, etc.

While the rotation of the bullet may contribute to the wound channel cavity, I suspect it is the dished out “flutes” distributed around the ogive (nose) that does most of the work. The normal hollow point relies on fluids entering the nose of the projectile and producing outward pressure, enough that the ogive is upset or split from the inside out. Hornady’s Defense and Duty ammo rely upon a soft elastomeric “plug to begin this upset process. All of the above requires specific impact velocities typically in the 1000 fps range in order to deform the bullet. Hence the popularity of light for caliber projectiles following the typical hollow point design.

The Honey Badger, I contend, uses the same principle as a bulldozer blade in that the fluid is re-directed outward from the central rotational axis of the bullet via the small scoops molded into the bullet’s ogive. The principle works independently of muzzle or rotational velocity, or nearly so.

An interesting experiment would be to shoot both “standard” hollow points and the Honey Badger from properly sized smooth bore barrels and compare the spinning vs the non-spinning results.

As Hornady has wrapped up the existing FBI ammunition contract and many LE agencies followed suit, it may take some time for the Honey Badger to catch on. Until that time, watching the video demonstrations is informative.

I have no connection with Lehigh bullets. I have yet to even fire one from one of my handguns. I have the Defender projectiles on order but as is the case with so many things these days, they may actually be as mythical as the unicorn. They have been on order for six months and nothing yet.

Bottom line: The videos and the basic design of the Honey Badger bullet just rings true with me. The round nosed profile is only additional icing on the cake.



This is what happens when ya don’t spend enough time shooting and ya have too much time on your hands!
 
iklwa said:
Check my math:

45 ACP, 230 grain travels at 850 fps.

850 fps. X 12 inches = 10200 inches per second of travel

51200 rpm divided by 10200 inches = 5 revolutions of the projectile per inch traveled

Average thickness of male human thoracic (chest) portion of the body, front to back = 10 inches

5 revolutions per inch x 10 inches of penetration = 50 total revolutions passing through the average male human’s chest striking with around 360 foot pounds of energy



Regarding the Honey Badger Defender projectile:

Videos that I have seen using ballistic gelatin show massive wound cavities produced by this projectile with absolutely no deformation of the bullet profile. The same applies even when shot through clothing, dry wall, leather, automotive glass, etc.

While the rotation of the bullet may contribute to the wound channel cavity, I suspect it is the dished out “flutes” distributed around the ogive (nose) that does most of the work. The normal hollow point relies on fluids entering the nose of the projectile and producing outward pressure, enough that the ogive is upset or split from the inside out. Hornady’s Defense and Duty ammo rely upon a soft elastomeric “plug to begin this upset process. All of the above requires specific impact velocities typically in the 1000 fps range in order to deform the bullet. Hence the popularity of light for caliber projectiles following the typical hollow point design.

The Honey Badger, I contend, uses the same principle as a bulldozer blade in that the fluid is re-directed outward from the central rotational axis of the bullet via the small scoops molded into the bullet’s ogive. The principle works independently of muzzle or rotational velocity, or nearly so.

An interesting experiment would be to shoot both “standard” hollow points and the Honey Badger from properly sized smooth bore barrels and compare the spinning vs the non-spinning results.

As Hornady has wrapped up the existing FBI ammunition contract and many LE agencies followed suit, it may take some time for the Honey Badger to catch on. Until that time, watching the video demonstrations is informative.

I have no connection with Lehigh bullets. I have yet to even fire one from one of my handguns. I have the Defender projectiles on order but as is the case with so many things these days, they may actually be as mythical as the unicorn. They have been on order for six months and nothing yet.

Bottom line: The videos and the basic design of the Honey Badger bullet just rings true with me. The round nosed profile is only additional icing on the cake.



This is what happens when ya don’t spend enough time shooting and ya have too much time on your hands!
Click to expand...
Your math is wrong.

The twist rate if the barrel—say, 1 revolution every 10, 12, 16, etc inches determines the distance in which the bullet makes a full rotation, not the velocity.

A bullet fired at 850fps out of a 1:12 barrel (1 complete revolution every 12 inches) will make 850 revolutions in one second, 850 feet downrange (physics class perfect world scenario—in the real world, fired at the level, it would hit the ground after about a half second 4-500 feet downrange).

51000 rpm comes out to—wait for it—

850 rpSecond.
 
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